I couldn't have said it better or more simply and concisely agnes. You are very wise I think

No doubt and the Quran. And the law. And poetry. And music and every other way they express their perception of the infinite loving God.

And by this make themselves better. If you are disappointed that they are not perfect, then you are asking them to be as gods and it is beyond them. It is not beyond them to be better humans but as long as you deride their efforts it may be beyond you. And that is tragic because it is your choice. May you be better than that.

On writing: A common cliche is "write what you know".......but writing is really about discovery. You don't really know what you think or feel until you write it down......or at least you gain a much greater understanding of what you think and feel.

Hopefully one day everyone can all get together.

yes well considering it is considered to be the word of GOD and to have it put before you as such and as some sort of holy guide book used to support dogma and much reasoning has been frustrating...
"infinite loving" ? definitely includes some conflicting messages in that respect too.

it wasn't/isn't just some song or some poem or some story...it is considered GOD's word the bible.

Agnes is correct in as far as Christian biblical-based religions are concerned, the bible is taken to be God's word, written by humans who were inspired by Him.

The Catholics changed it up by adding thier own dogma, and that really infuriates the Bapstists. The King James version , well, that is its own string ( unless it is embedded back there somewhere) , but the yeah, the bible is God's word, and that is not true for poetry, et.al.

Israel's claim on that land was always contingent on them treating the stranger as themselves or the land would vomit them out.

Though the 4 horsemen of Revelations have been riding for 2000 or more years with authority to take peace from the earth, their authority is going to end when the World Court of Daniel 7 gives the power to the peaceful.

It has always been the Lamb's will for Nations to beat swords into plowshares, and never train for war again as is in Micah 5 and Isaiah 2.

This T-Rex photo is about as close as it will ever get to seeing superman fly out of the sky for the TV is the clouds of heaven of Daniel 7.

Yet they put Moses' name as the author of the first four books of the Bible. Other books are named for the prophets. It is the Song of Solomon, the Gospels according Mathew, Mark, John, Luke, or Acts as written by Paul. Some don't simply say, the word of God; they say the divinely inspired word of God. Some people believe their poetry is divinely inspired. Who am I to say they are wrong? Or you? Your belief against their belief? Isn't that the very thing you're ridiculing?



A good Father's Day here. Three services and performances with the praise band, the men's ensemble and the choir. Kids are home. Apple pie and ice cream. Buffalo Springfield on the road again. Delightful. Thank you, Lord.

Folks,

Or they train themselves NOT to watch, preferring the diversion of late-breaking news on Congressman Anthony Wiener's photogenic "junk."

It is mostly to such folks that I include the facts that follow, acknowledging that many of you readers are likely to be quite familiar with some or all of them. It is for the non-readers, like perhaps some in your own family or your neighbors, that I feel a need to make one more effort to expose this reality: By turning a blind eye to Israeli brutality in Gaza, our government and our media make Americans a great deal LESS safe and secure.

http://www.opednews.com/articles/1/Gaza ... 8-700.html
Can Self-Interest Prompt More Common Sense?

I am guessing that only a direct, fact-based appeal has much chance of prompting many Americans to push -- if only out of self-interest -- for a more utilitarian and, incidentally, a more moral approach to the festering wound of Gaza.

The Fawning Corporate Media (FCM) will not array the facts as they should be arrayed (if they mention them at all). And, of course, that goes in spades for TV "news." Yet, it is not difficult to connect the dots, once you know what they are.

What follows is intended for people like the fellow who recently flipped an obscene gesture at me after reading my bumper sticker, which says simply, "God Bless the Rest of the World Too." It is for those who choose to express their exclusive concern for just one segment of humanity by chanting, "U.S.A., U.S.A." It is for those who have never heard of, or blithely reject, Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.'s wise admonition that "injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere."

Michael

So part of the problem over there has been the imposed autocratic rule. It does not matter anymore when it was imposed or who imposed it but it does matter now that it may be coming to an end in many places. One of the perks of being an autocratic ruler is you get to define your enemies by decree. So we have a region with a century of social and cultural disruption by petty autocratic whims (Iraq, Iran Syria take your pick, they have all had them). Now we know what happened in Iran (autocrat toppled by theology which has split the country but they have a president who wants to be important). GW (another president who wanted to be important) decided to impose democracy on Iraq and after 100,000 deaths and many scars we are waiting to see how that turns out. Egypt, Syria and presumably Libya are trying to do it on their own (as far as we know) by massive popular uprisings. There is a lot of vendetta. There is a lot of religious fanaticism. There is a huge disproportion of wealth and education (something America is currently aspiring to). Of course, in the middle of all this there is Israel.

It is obvious from the comments in this thread how passionately people want to cling to things like god and flag and tribal affiliation, whatever. It just seems to me the only solution in the long run is more tolerance and integration of people into cultures and communities. In my opinion, (obviously a controversial opinion), a re-evaluation of what god is will be required to make it work.

By the way, not ridiculing anybody! Just expressing my beliefs. Something Atheists have not been allowed to do without fear of persecution and death in even the most recent past. Len, you never answered my question...Is it OK for Christians to proselytize?


And (sorry another thought popped up)

I am aware of the fact that an autocrat (Stalin) used forced institutionalized atheism as a tool of decree in the killing of millions of Ukrainian peasants back in 1932-33. Horrible, starving deaths with religious persecution as one of the excuses. Hitler was just starting out when Stalin was already stacking bodies. Initially even supported by the likes of George Orwell and George Bernard Shaw.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IfVq3ET-uDA

I don't endorse using atheism as a religious/political tool! Just want to be clear there.

(Just FYI, Stalin accused the Orthodox Church of organizing a peasant revolt and separatist movement in the Ukraine that went so far as creating pockets of famine to sabotage the Soviet plans. One of the reasons for the separatist movement was their dispute with doctrinal atheism (according to Stalin).)

As long as any position accepts the right of the dissenting position to exist where it breaks no laws and does not actively seek to destroy it's opponent, sure. Keep in mind, no church or community can long be a monolith and that includes atheists.

I think you may enjoy this.

http://www.thegodarticle.com/7/post/2011/06/the-death-throes-of-fundamentalism-in-a-thinking-church.html

Our local bishop is calling on the methodists to commit acts of civil disobedience in response to Alabama's draconian immigration law. I may quibble with that but I recognize the long tradition of such dissent in the methodist communities and consider it one of the better aspects of their organizing powers.

another mediator of another new covenant,,,,,,,,,or else? (if not accepted as THE authority/saviour, re: jesus ,muhammed, conduits (?) messengers (?) of yhwh, allah...you are doomed?)

i think it is great to have opened up to the idea that homosexuals, "slaves" , women...(as mentioned in the article you have posted) (it is late and i am bleary eyed and i hope i got that right)...are fellow human beings and are individuals...but as far as it's being neccesary to join or be associated with a church as credentials to be saved? (in other words to avoid going to hell or being killed in the battle of har megiddo etc...)
i also think it is great for humans to talk about things...perhaps inspire one another and maybe grow in a positive direction as a species? but if one doesn't join yet another branch of denomination, whatever...is one considered doomed?

The so-called "savage" who has not only not accepted any "deity" as his/her saviour (never been touched by or exposed to any "organized" religion, who perhaps finds spiritual awareness and wonder and contentment in the natural world which surrounds him, the celestial bodies, the tremendously powerful and subtle forces of the physical planet).......if he/she loves and respects their universe, and treats other human beings as they would wish to be treated.......how could such a person be "doomed?"(randomness, free will or predestination?) There can be no certainty by anyone what awaits us after this life ceases, only a "blind" faith (I ain't knockin' faith!).......this life, here and now, is real, in that it can be seen and touched and heard and smelled and tasted and the changes experienced over [temporal/linear] time (not that quantum physical celery stuff (I ain't knockin' it either!) can be observed as we grow older and hopefully wiser and watch it as it circles seemingly endlessly around and around through destruction and renewal; birth death birth------not of the individual but of all life and even matter.......(matter is neither created nor destroyed?).........it is spiritual money in the bank.........the other stuff is a really big maybe or maybe not, this or that, or even something that we have not even gotten close to imagining...yet. One thing I believe: my uncertainty about why I'm here and where I might or might not be going next would not encourage me to discriminate against, enslave, or kill others who did not share my uncertainty. Dogmatic religious "certainties" are by nature devisive; spirituality and spiritual concepts embrace unification. Religion is NOT spirituality, although it may contain spiritual aspects. And spirituality is NOT religion, although it may contain or express ritualistic aspects. Peace

Well said , Kevin!

And dogmatic spiritualists are somehow less dogs? All dogs go to heaven. Why? It's a mystery, but the cinema says it's so. And Hollywood never lies.

We are One at the Solstice
We are One when we're stoned
We are One on the news
When Jeffrey Weiner shows his bone
We can hate Sarah Palin
But we leave Michelle alone
And they will know we are pagans
By our love, by our love
Yes, they'll know we are pagans
By our love.

I gotta go celebrate the transit into Cancer by sacrificing blood at the Cancer Institute with other Sun worshippers. Blessed be the holy needle and the drip bag from which my salvation flows. Along the pilgramage, I will put my sales coupons in the dumpster altar so the poor can be blessed by the leavings of the church of the economic engine, then I may volunteer to watch the deluded religious folk who are chain sawing the tornado damage from the last miracle performed by the Gaia Goddess on her followers in the less fortunate neighborhoods.

So much comfort in unnatural acts.