Joe started a string of commentaries called Fixing Social Security. That is a start!

Down the line it also affects people who are on SSI and SSD. Eventually, it will hurt them even worse than those collecting retirement SS although I'm not sure how it affects those already on it. What I'm trying to say to Cheryl is that Bush and his people are devoted to attacking the very programs that she and Mike and millions of others need to get along. I'm trying to say that if good old Dubya and his crew had had his way years ago, disabled people and retired people without very large reserves of money of their own would have nothing to live on today.

They've already put the hurt on subsidized housing for the poor and more people are homeless. If the Great Society had a War on Poverty, the Bush administration is waging a War on the Poor. More than that. First he's adding immeasurably to the numbers in poverty, then he's waging his war on them. Cheryl supports Bush but is not wealthy and is one of the people who both voted for him and could be directly hurt by his policies. I'm just wondering how much she looked into that, how much her preacher talked to the congregation about those things, before going out and voting for the bastard. That's all.

Sure hope they don't mess with social security. But I just couldn't support a canadate who wouldn't be for the things of God & what was right morally...

Wow.................!@#$%^>>....Holy Crap Batman

So, what do we do about it? Oh yeah, and which (or whose) god(dess)? There's lots of 'em, ya know.

<center><FONT COLOR="#000080">--- Edited 1 times, lastly by Captain Zap on Jan 21, 2005 ---</FONT></center>

I am sorry for my holy crap outburst. I am an emotional guy sometimes! There is nothing I want more than to support morality! I often find mysel_____________lost and uncertain______somebody help, what am I trying to say here!!!!

How about: Ugh!

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Cheryl Harrell:
I just couldn't support a canadate who wouldn't be for the things of God & what was right morally...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Me neither---that's why I didn't vote for Bush!

I respect your religious beliefs, Cheryl, & the way you try to live your faith, but I'd argue with anybody--respectfully, of course--- that Bush is no man of God.

Here's a link I provided somewhere here earlier that might be of interest.

Bush certainly likes to emphasize his faith & belief in God & there are certainly many Republicans who like to stress how moral they are. But I'm almost 47 years old & have learned 4 things in life about what people say. Here they are, in the order that I learned 'em:

1. The kid in the schoolyard that talks the most about how tough he is isn't tough at all & needn't be feared.
2. The guy in the college dorm who brags the most about his sexual experiences has had the least.
3. The guy in the workplace who talks the most about how hard he works doesn't do a damn thing all day.
4. The guy who talks the most about how moral he is-----Well, when he starts doing that, run in the other direction!

[QUOTE]Originally posted by P. Pittsburgh Joe:
but I'd argue with anybody--respectfully, of course--- that Bush is no man of God.

respectfully of course -- I have to agree with Joe --- glad someone said it before I had an OUTBURST too!! (-:

** PS I got a very good laugh from your holy crap outburst! And I really needed a cheer up today! THANKS !!!!!!

Immoral and hypocrite are two of many words that spring to mind. The list is VERY long.
But something recent.......... Cheryl how would you feel if you had a daughter or son who was sent to Iraq and had to scavenge metal from other destroyed vehicles to weld onto their 2nd rate vehicles to try and protect themselves.... or no flak jackets ....
a brave soldier got up recently and confronted Rummy about this....and didn't get a very helpful response did he???????????? And then they spend 60 MILLION on a PARTY and when W. is asked about it he replies "Well we need to celebrate Domocracy"!!!!!!

Boy!! I know how I'd feel if I was getting shot at in a place where I shouldn't have really been sent ,and when the reasons I was sent are all lies!!!!!
Heck M.M. will probably gat enough e-mails to publish "Letters from the War Zone, Part Two" !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Bush IS a man of god. The god of money, the god of power, the god of selfishness, the god of lies, the god of deceit, the god of war, the god of .... well, you get the idea. Seems to share a lot of traits with bin Laden and his ilk, no? Having others kill for them and sending others to die using lies and in the name of their gods.

"The revolution starts now
when you rise above your fear.
Tear the walls around you down
The revolution starts here.....
Where you work and where you play
Where you lay your money down
What you do and what you say
The revolution starts now.
Yeah, the revolution starts now
In your own back yard, in your own home town
So, whatchya doin' standin' around?
Just follow your heart
The (YOUR) revolution starts NOW!"
-Steve Earl, "The Revolution Starts Now"

<img src="http://www.arlo.net/ubb/smilies/peace.gif" width=16 height=16>
Zap

I agree it is so sad for the soldiers & them not getting the support they deserve. They need better protection & equipment. Vibers to them & anyone in harms way...

"Holy Crap" is appropriate and on point. Bush may have got just enough votes by convincing just enough people that God is on his side. Nothing about his policies indicate that he's on God's side, however, if God is anything like the Jesus of the New Testament. I'm sorry, but people should investigate the POLICIES of people who run for office, not just their rhetoric. Any snake-oil salesman can say he's a man of God and that's exactly what's happening here. What makes me crazy is that Cheryl and a few million like her are the very people who are most hurt by policies that Bush wants to put into place and if he doesn't it will be the Democrats and maybe some moderate Republicans that stop him, not the Christian right.

You can't say you've done your duty by God by just voting for the one who uses "moral values" the most times in a sentence. John Kerry LIVED moral values his whole life, at least a thousand times more than George Bush could ever imagine. So did Wesley Clark in a different way. So did most of the Democratic candidates who were so denigrated by the Christian Right. Just because you believe doesn't mean you don't have a moral obligation to yourself and the world to know exactly what you're voting for when you go and vote. Not just rhetoric, but at the very least what policies this person would like to put into place. I don't think that Cheryl would agree with many of them if she knew what they were.

Abortion, for instance, has gone up under Bush . That's not a coincidence. That's because policy has consequences. His economic policies have removed a lot of hope and his domestic policies have already removed a lot of help, such as Section 8 housing which has been seriously cut in many areas, with more cuts to come. He doesn't give a shit how many abortions are performed. He just finds it to be a useful wedge issue when handled carefully.

All I'm saying is Stop Drinking the Kool-aid! He's not a man of God. He's the enemy of the poor. If you don't have money he has declared war on you. Fight back. It's not entirely too late. Find out what he's trying to do and write to your congressperson and senator and let them know if you don't like it.

I'll betcha they didn't serve any of that plastic prop turkey that Bush posed with for the photo op with the troops in Iraq back on Thanksgiving 2003. Sadly, Bush does well represent the intellect of the electorate.

..well i planned to post this pretty long though powerful statement elsewhere....but it seems to go with the flow here.....

Dear Mr. President and Mr. Vice-President,


I realize that you will never read this yourself, or even have it read to
you by your staff (since there is a rumor that you don't ever actually read
anything yourself), but perhaps your email-sorters will take the time to
think about this...  I am forwarding this on from and email my grandmother
sent to me.  The italics are my own.

 

This is attributed to Dr. Robin Meyer, pastor at Oklahoma City's Mayflower
Congregational Church (UCC), and professor of rhetoric at Oklahoma City
University. It purports to be his remarks at a peace rally at Oklahoma
University on November 14, 2004:
 

As some of you know, I am minister of Mayflower Congregational Church in

Oklahoma City, an Open and Affirming, Peace and Justice church in northwest
Oklahoma City, and professor of Rhetoric at Oklahoma City University. But
you would most likely have encountered me on the pages of the Oklahoma
Gazette, where I have been a columnist for six years, and hold the record

for the most number of angry letters to the editor.

 

Tonight, I join ranks of those who are angry, because I have watched as the

faith I love has been taken over by fundamentalists who claim to speak for

Jesus, but whose actions are anything but Christian. We've heard a lot

lately about so-called "moral values" as having swung the election to

President Bush. Well, I'm a great believer in moral values, but we need to

have a discussion, all over this country, about exactly what constitutes a

moral value. I mean what are we talking about?

 

Because we don't get to make them up as we go along, especially not if we

are people of faith. We have an inherited tradition of what is right and

wrong, and moral is as moral does. Let me give you just a few of the reasons

why I take issue with those in power who claim moral values are on their

side:

 

When you start a war on false pretenses, and then act as if your deceptions

are justified because you are doing God's will, and that your critics are

either unpatriotic or lacking in faith, there are some of us who have given

our lives to teaching and preaching the faith who believe that this is not

only not moral, but immoral.

 

When you live in a country that has established international rules for

waging a just war, build the United Nations on your own soil to enforce

them, and then arrogantly break the very rules you set down for the rest of

the world, you are doing something immoral.

 

When you claim that Jesus is the Lord of your life, and yet fail to

acknowledge that your policies ignore his essential teaching, or turn them
on their head (you know, Sermon on the Mount stuff like that we must never

return violence for violence and that those who live by the sword will die

by the sword), you are doing something immoral.

 

When you act as if the lives of Iraqi civilians are not as important as the

lives of American soldiers, and refuse to even count them, you are doing

something immoral.

 

When you find a way to avoid combat in Vietnam, and then question the
patriotism of someone who volunteered to fight, and came home a hero, you

are doing something immoral.

 

When you ignore the fundamental teachings of the gospel, which says that the

way the strong treat the weak is the ultimate ethical test, by giving tax
breaks to the wealthiest among us so the strong will get stronger and the

weak will get weaker, you are doing something immoral.

 

When you wink at the torture of prisoners, and deprive so-called "enemy

combatants" of the rules of the Geneva Convention, which your own country

helped to establish and insists that other countries follow, you are doing

something immoral.

 

When you claim that the world can be divided up into the good guys and the

evil doers, slice up your own nation into those who are with you or with the

terrorists, and then launch a war which enriches your own friends and seizes

control of the oil to which we are addicted, instead of helping us to kick

the habit, you are doing something immoral.

 

When you fail to veto a single spending bill, but ask us to pay for a war

with no exit strategy and no end in sight, creating an enormous deficit that

hangs like a great millstone around the necks of our children, you are doing

something immoral.

 

When you cause most of the rest of the world to hate a country that was once

the most loved country in the world, and act like it doesn't matter what

others think of us, only what God thinks of you, you have done something

immoral.

 

When you use hatred of homosexuals as a wedge issue to turn out record

numbers of evangelical voters, and use the Constitution as a tool of

discrimination, you are doing something immoral.

 

When you favor the death penalty, and yet claim to be a follower of Jesus,

who said an eye for an eye was the old way, not the way of the kingdom, you

are doing something immoral.

 

When you dismantle countless environmental laws designed to protect the

earth which is God's gift to us all, so that the corporations that bought

you and paid for your favors will make higher profits while our children

breathe dirty air and live in a toxic world, you have done something

immoral. The earth belongs to the Lord, not Halliburton.

 

When you claim that our God is bigger than their God, and that our killing

is righteous, while theirs is evil, we have begun to resemble the enemy we

claim to be fighting, and that is immoral. We have met the enemy, and the

enemy is us.

 

When you tell people that you intend to run and govern as a "compassionate

conservative", using the word which is the essence of all religious

faith-compassion, and then show no compassion for anyone who disagrees with

you, and no patience with those who cry to you for help, you are doing

something immoral.

 

When you talk about Jesus constantly, who was a healer of the sick, but do

nothing to make sure that anyone who is sick can go to see a doctor, even if

she doesn't have a penny in her pocket, you are doing something immoral.

 

When you put judges on the bench who are racist, and will set women back a

hundred years, and when you surround yourself with preachers who say gays

ought to be killed, you are doing something immoral.

 

I'm tired of people thinking that because I'm a Christian, I must be a

supporter of President Bush, or that because I favor civil rights and gay

rights I must not be a person of faith. I'm tired of people saying that I

can't support the troops but oppose the war?

 

I heard that when I was your age, when the Vietnam War was raging. We knew

that that war was wrong, and you know that this war is wrong, the only

question is how many people are going to die before these make-believe

Christians are removed from power?

 

This country is bankrupt. The war is morally bankrupt. The claim of this

administration to be Christian is bankrupt. And the only people who can turn

things around are people like you, young people who are just beginning to

wake up to what is happening to them. It's your country to take back. It's

your faith to take back. It's your future to take back.

 

Don't be afraid to speak out. Don't back down when your friends begin to

tell you that the cause is righteous and that the flag should be wrapped

around the cross, while the rest of us keep our mouths shut. Real Christians

take chances for peace. So do real Jews, and real Muslims, and real Hindus,

and real Buddhists, so do all the faith traditions of the world at their

heart believe one thing: life is precious. Every human being is precious.

 

Arrogance is the opposite of faith. Greed is the opposite of charity. And

believing that one has never made a mistake is the mark of a deluded man,
not a man of faith. And "war is the greatest failure of the human race" and

thus the greatest failure of faith.

 

There's an old rock and roll song, whose lyrics say it all: War, what is it

good for? Absolutely nothing. And what is the dream of the prophets? That we

should study war no more, that we should beat our swords into plowshares and

our spears into pruning hooks. Who would Jesus bomb, indeed? How many wars

does it take to know that too many people have died? What if they gave a war

and nobody came? Maybe one day we will find out.

 

Time to march again my friends. Time to commit acts of civil disobedience.

Time to sing, and to pray, and refuse to participate in the madness. My

generation finally stopped a tragic war. You can, too!