Oh yeah! Thanks for the site Shel! I ordered some stuff from them on saturday!

Great Site!

Goerge W. bush just completed a joint news conference with the prime minister of Iraq from the whitehouse. I listened to it on the radio. In one sentence, he explained that confusion and mixed messages that we send about our involment in the Iraq war send the wrong message to our enemies and embolden them. In the next sentence, he twiceexplained how <u>Afghan</u> forces had taken a bigger role in the Iraq war and cited two specific examples of action they had been involved in.Confusion you say? I bet even Karl Rove winced on that one. You can't make this stuff up. It's no wonder they don't let him of the leash to speak to often.

Larry, that wasn't a joint news conference as much as it was a campaign speech and attack on Kerry. Bush and the Republicans will do anything to stay in power; right now, their strong suit is painting all opposition to their administration with the broad black brush of "aiding and abetting the enemy".

Look for an October surprise to come from the Iraqi insurgents that may make the Tet Offensive look like a paintball match.

Prayers and blundervibes for all the troops; incidentally, I was sent a very interesting e-mail by a Veterans group about Democrats vs. Republicans who served in past conflicts. If I can find it, I'll post it here, or at least the link to it here.

Here is a list, supplied to me by a Veterans newsgroup, showing who served and did not serve in the military:

Democrats
* Richard Gephardt: Air National Guard, 1965-71.
* David Bonior: Staff Sgt., Air Force 1968-72.
* Tom Daschle: 1st Lt., Air Force SAC 1969-72.
* Al Gore: enlisted Aug. 1969; sent to Vietnam Jan. 1971 as an army
journalist in 20th Engineer Brigade.
* Bob Kerrey: Lt. j.g. Navy 1966-69; Medal of Honor, Vietnam.
* Daniel Inouye: Army 1943-'47; Medal of Honor, WWII.
* John Kerry: Lt., Navy 1966-70; Silver Star, Bronze Star with CombatV,
Purple Hearts.
* Charles Rangel: Staff Sgt., Army 1948-52; Bronze Star, Korea.
* Max Cleland: Captain, Army 1965-68; Silver Star & Bronze Star,Vietnam.
* Ted Kennedy: Army, 1951-1953.
* Tom Harkin: Lt., Navy, 1962-67; Naval Reserve, 1968-74.
* Jack Reed: Army Ranger, 1971-1979; Captain, Army Reserve 1979-91.
* Fritz Hollings: Army officer in WWII, receiving the Bronze Star and seven
campaign ribbons.
* Leonard Boswell: Lt. Col., Army 1956-76; Vietnam, DFCs, BronzeStars, and
Soldier's Medal.
* Pete Peterson: Air Force Captain, POW. Purple Heart, Silver Star and
Legion of Merit.
* Mike Thompson: Staff sergeant, 173rd Airborne, Purple Heart.
* Bill McBride: Candidate for Fla. Governor. Marine in Vietnam; Bronze Star
with Combat V.
* Gray Davis: Army Captain in Vietnam, Bronze Star.
* Pete Stark: Air Force 1955-57
* Chuck Robb: Vietnam
* Howell Heflin: Silver Star
* George McGovern: Silver Star & DFC during WWII.
* Bill Clinton: Did not serve. Student deferments. Entered draft but
received 311.
* Jimmy Carter: Seven years in the Navy.
* Walter Mondale: Army 1951-1953
* John Glenn: WWII and Korea; six DFCs and Air Medal with 18 Clusters.
* Tom Lantos: Served in Hungarian underground in WWII. Saved by Raoul
Wallenberg.


Republicans
* Dennis Hastert: did not serve.
* Tom Delay: did not serve.
* Roy Blunt: did not serve.
* Bill Frist: did not serve.
* Mitch McConnell: did not serve.
* Rick Santorum: did not serve.
* Trent Lott: did not serve.
* Dick Cheney: did not serve. Several deferments, the last by marriage.
* John Ashcroft: did not serve. Seven deferments to teach business.
* Jeb Bush: did not serve.
* Karl Rove: did not serve.
* Saxby Chambliss: did not serve. "Bad knee." The man who attacked Max
Cleland's patriotism.
* Paul Wolfowitz: did not serve.
* Vin Weber: did not serve.
* Richard Perle: did not serve.
* Douglas Feith: did not serve.
* Eliot Abrams: did not serve.
* Richard Shelby: did not serve.
* Jon Kyl: did not serve.
* Tim Hutchison: did not serve.
* Christopher Cox: did not serve.
* Newt Gingrich: did not serve.
* Don Rumsfeld: served in Navy (1954-57) as aviator and flight instructor.
* G.W. Bush: six-year Nat'l Guard commitment (in four).
* Ronald Reagan: due to poor eyesight, served in a non-combat role making
movies.
*Bob Dornan: Consciously enlisted after fighting was over in Korea.
* Phil Gramm: did not serve.
* John McCain: Silver Star, Bronze Star, Legion of Merit, Purple Heart and
Distinguished Flying Cross.
* Bob Dole: an honorable veteran.
* Chuck Hagel: two Purple Hearts and a Bronze Star, Vietnam.
* Duke Cunningham: nominated for Medal of Honor, Navy Cross, Silver Stars,
Air Medals, Purple Hearts.
* Jeff Sessions: Army Reserves, 1973-1986
* Colin Powell: Long career in military management.
* Wayne Gilchrest: USMC in Vietnam; wounded in action.
* Don Nickles: Biography does not list military service.
* Dana Rohrabacher: did not serve.
* John M. McHugh: did not serve.
* JC Watts: did not serve.
* Jack Kemp: did not serve, due to "knee problem", although continued in NFL
for 8 years.
* Dan Quayle: Journalism unit of the Indiana National Guard.
* Rudy Giuliani: did not serve.
* George Pataki: did not serve.
* Spencer Abraham: did not serve.
* John Engler: did not serve.
* Lindsey Graham: National Guard lawyer.
* Arnold Schwarzenegger: AWOL from Austrian army base.
* G.H.W. Bush: Pilot in WWII. Shot down by the Japanese.
* Tom Ridge: Bronze Star for Valor in Vietnam.
* Sam Johnson: Combat in Korea and Vietnam, POW in Hanoi.
* Ted Stevens: WWII pilot, DFCs, two Air Medals.
* John Warner: Served in the Navy during WWII as a RM3
* Heather Wilson: Air Force 1978-1989
* Gerald Ford: Navy, WWII

Pundits & Others
* Sean Hannity: did not serve.
* Rush Limbaugh: did not serve (4-F with a 'pilonidal cyst.')
* Bill O'Reilly: did not serve.
* Michael Savage: did not serve.
* George Will: did not serve.
* Chris Matthews: did not serve.
* Paul Gigot: did not serve.
* Bill Bennett: did not serve.
* Pat Buchanan: did not serve.
* John Wayne: did not serve.
* Bill Kristol: did not serve.
* Kenneth Starr: did not serve.
* Antonin Scalia: did not serve.
* Clarence Thomas: did not serve.
* Ralph Reed: did not serve.
* Michael Medved: did not serve.
* Charlie Daniels: did not serve.
* Ted Nugent: did not serve.

Today at work I said to the only co-worker (a former Brit) who is following the election nearly as closely as me... "Well I've sent my registration to vote and am now waiting for my Absentee Ballot, I know every vote counts but I still wish I could do more, it's only one little vote."
"Well", he said to me... "Just picture voting day and Bush is putting his vote in the box.
Then picture your vote going in the box.
See!!! You just cancelled HIS vote !!!"
A Blunder moment!!

Thanks, Louise! Now ... who's vote will my vote cancel?? Guess most any republican will do!

When I was 16 I had a boyfriend who was 20 and worked on the University of Queensland Campus (one of the best in OZ, my daughter went there). Anyway, I hung out there alot with the radical, subversive types (of course). Well one of the best times I had was a free talk given(I think it was 1970) by a guy called Ralf Nader!! Now like me I'm sure some of you guys have a lot of time for the man. But! I had to spend lots of time filling out forms and stuff just to get a Absentee Ballot sent over here to me (haven't recieved it yet) So as I said, in a post below, my vote is gonna cancel out Dubya's vote. But now I hear from my sister (who lives here too)that people she knows in the states are gonna make some kinda protest vote for Nader cos their not happy with what Kerry is doing. I know he isn't Clinton or anything but isn't he better than the alternative!!! We know Nader will never win!! So what do you guys think!! Thanks for listening to my self rightous raving but this is SERIOUS!! ( I know you tried Ceashel)

It's not the time for protest votes. A vote for anybody but Kerry is a vote for Bush, to borrow a phrase from Star.

I've been disgusted with the Democrats myself for 4 years---first, for how they didn't fight hard enough about the Florida recounts in 2000, & 2nd, for rolling over & letting Bush have whatever he wanted during his presidency. I seriously considered voting for whoever the Green Party candidate was, & I certainly didn't wanna vote for one of these Democratic senators (Kerry, Lieberman, etc.) who let Bush have his way for 3-4 years.

But I realized that you gotta do things one step at a time. This year, it's more important than anything just to get Bush outta there. Next election, I'll see what the Greens & other 3rd parties hafta offer.

Ready for the debate tonight? Got snacks, wine/beer/cola? Here's the one thing you may have forgotten--a scorecard:

<FONT size="1">President Bush's handlers have ferociously negotiated every last detail of formats for the presidential debates. Their extreme attention to detail isn't a product of Bush's subpar debate skills. On the contrary, he's quite good - especially when the format doesn't allow for suitable follow-up from an opponent or moderator to refute all his super-spun answers. By now, we all know that President Bush can do nothing if not stick to a script with the best of them.

But President Bush's script hasn't included real answers to real problems facing real Americans - and it's time to demand them from him. With that in mind here's a handy primer to use for scoring the debates while watching from home. It's an easy game to play, but the total score might make soccer look like a high scoring affair. Here's how it works: When President Bush does any of the following, add one point.

-- Acknowledges the true extent of the mess in Iraq.
-- Acknowledges that the "Mission Accomplished" banner and "Bring 'em on" comment were big mistakes.
-- Presents a plan to fix the mess in Iraq.
-- Explains how his current troop rotation program is sustainable, despite GAO estimates.
-- Presents a plan for dealing with North Korea.
-- Explains how Halliburton rose from the 22nd-largest military contractor in 2000 to seventh in 2003.
-- Explains why we haven't found the source of the Valerie Plame leak.
-- Explains why we haven't found Osama bin Laden.
-- Mentions Osama bin Laden.
-- Offers a full explanation for the WMD argument.
-- Offers a full apology for the WMD argument (this is worth double).
-- Offers a full apology for Abu Ghraib.
-- Unveils a plan for rebuilding America's stature and respect throughout the world.

Sounds easy enough, doesn't it? Well, here's a second list: Whenever President Bush does any of these things, subtract one point:

-- Uses the phrase "stay the course."
-- Bad-mouths our traditional allies (bonus points if he specifically mentions France).
-- Calls John Kerry a flip-flopper.
-- Calls his opponents weak.
-- Mentions "the lessons of September the 11th"
-- Talks of supporting the troops without mentioning shortages of armored Humvees, clean water and body armor.
-- Uses the phrase "Coalition of the Willing."
-- Utters any of the following: thugs, assassins, madman.

That's it, now you have a ready-made guide to the debate proceedings for tomorrow night. As you can see, you'll probably end up in red numbers - just like the Bush budget.

Above all else, remember this: George W. Bush is the incumbent, so it's up to him to answer all of the public's questions about his failed policies. He hasn't so far - here's guessing he won't tonight, either.

We'll be back to you on Friday with our post-debate analysis.

Sincerely,

Mike Lux
President, BushRecall.org
</FONT s>

<center><FONT COLOR="#000080">--- Edited 1 times, lastly by Ceashel on Sep 30, 2004 ---</FONT></center>

I don't watch the debates as they are usually boring. So I'll read what you guys have to say & see the news to find out what happened. I already know who I am voting for... <img src="http://www.arlo.net/ubb/smilies/smile.gif" width=15 height=15>

...and I'm sure that Peter Tork will appreciate your vote!

I'm voting for Dub but if Peter Tork ran he might be a good candidate...

Kerry kicked ass last night. The rightwing buzz on the internet is that there should be an investigation because Kerry must have had the questions in advance. They can't seem to understand that there are people who simply know what they're talking about and have no trouble discussing the most pressing issues of our times.

Did you catch this in the debate? According to George Bush, "...we are fighting a group of folks." Maybe that's why Cat Stevens is blacklisted.