i thought i was making myself clear...i guess i wasnt.

all i was suggesting is that you ducked the questions instead of answering them. (which you just did again...no surprise)

as for 'petty'.....when i asked you to clarify YOUR post you responded with "I'm being as specific as I choose to be"...i consider that childish and petty.....but somehow i dont get the feeling that we have the same definitions of things....so i'm not holding my breath.

the only question you asked me that I can find, that i didn't answer, sherry, was, who I meant, by the in-out group. And, since Zowie was/is an individual.and obviously the group "addressing him" was a group, i didn't see a need to answer, Please let me know, if you asked something else....something less "petty" perhaps...

<center><FONT COLOR="#000080">--- Edited 1 times, lastly by Bumper on Oct 23, 2001 ---</FONT></center>

First of all, nice story Sparkydon. With a good lesson to learn. Someone once said "It's not the people you meet today, that may be on one side or another. But in the long run, you may find those same people to compromise, and have more in common than previously thought". Thus making for productive politics. (paraphrasing Guthrie)

*secondly, Bumper, why beat around the bush. Your answers to the questions seem, wary of any obvious answers!!!!


***Kim. I've loved and been a fan of A.G since I was 12. I even went thru the Arlo phase where I was fanatic. I must have written a 1000 fan letters, way before arlo.net was on the web. I admitt, I'm still a hard-core fan, but feel the folkslinger deserves his privacy. He's more than generous to his many fans. Even making himself available, for the Spring and Fall concerts. Arlo sincerely loves his fans. That's obvious. But to try and voice something for him is ridiculous. I do enjoy reading about his lifestyle, but to pretend to know what he's thinking, or how he feels (about certain crap as this)....It's an insult to readers, and fans alike!

Don't get me wrong Kim. I enjoy yours and Daves input (as your a great example of knowing what Arlo's made of) very much. Not attending a fraction of the shows, I'd like, it's great getting news from the front. From you guys, to all the setlist posters....

**Just don't like people generalizing what Arlo would say or feel. Especially to get themselves off the hook.....

*EX..Jesus loves me and my diabetes, cause ADG told me so.....'Cheryl H.'

I think you get my drift.......

Allrighty then. I'm all caught up now. I'm not sure I understand all of it, but at least I'll have some idea of what everyone is talking about in chat next time I'm there -- provided the subject remains topical and tropical that long.

The spirit of the Great Pumpkin is mighty indeed. Thank goodness for pumpkins!

Don, I see what you meant about the Trudeau story being a good one for the times. Learning how to agree to disagree is one of the toughest, and one of the most important lessons we, as human beings, can learn -- at least, as far as I'm concerned.

Since we're most of us being extra patriotic these days, it might be a good time to pull out that chestnut from our country's earliest days: "I disagree with what you say, but will defend to the death your right to say it." (I'll leave it to Todd and/or Nathan to clean that up for me, and tell us who said it.)

I had a theory, when I was in my teens, that Jesus' message was so radical for his time, it's taken 2000 years for the rest of us to reach the point where we can even begin to grasp what he was talking about, let alone to be able to follow his teachings. I haven't really changed my mind about that, but I've added a few more things to the list of "ideas it takes a little time to get used to, let alone live by" Evolution, like all birth, is a messy business -- and it takes a lot of false starts to get it right. That goes for spiritual evolution as much as it does for the physical variety. Consider that it wasn't until around 300B.C. that a few Greek philosophers even began questioning the morality of killing people. The taking of another's life wasn't considered a moral issue before that, in our Western culture. Tolerance and restraint may be signs of maturity, but maturity doesn't come about overnight, now does it?

The other thing is, sometimes we simply get things all wrong. Case in point: the friends who gave me the computer are from India, originally. When their daughter was born, I said "I bet she grows up to be a real heartbreaker." I said it with the best of intentions, and meant it as a compliment, but that's not how it sounded to either of them. Apparently, "heartbreaker" isn't a colloquialism that's heard much in India ... The mother heard it as a direct insult, and while the father tried to explain that I was joking, the fact that he thought it a joke made it clear that he didn't understand the meaning, either. It took years before she would even speak to me again -- and all I'd been saying was that I bet their beautiful baby would grow up to be a beautiful woman.

Some people are better at expressing themselves than others, and some are able to express themselves harmoniously within their environment. Sociopaths, for example, will know exactly what to say, and will be utterly charming (until the worm turns, at least, and the Hyde side comes to the forefront). They are usually very successful manipulators, and that's all their charm is used for. It may seem like a funny example to bring up, except that it does support the point that expressing one's self well doesn't necessarily mean one is a better person for it.

Me, I don't see the advantage of everyone agreeing about everything, of doing all the same things, or of living the exact same way. I think there's a purpose to the fact that we all perceive reality just a little bit differently, express ourselves differently, and all look a little different one from another. I also think we add up to a whole that is greater than the sum of the parts -- when we finally learn how to bring it all together.

Don't get me wrong: I loathe fighting, discord, and confrontation more than just about anything -- but have also learned to accept that some people positively thrive on these things. I've also learned that some people have chemical imbalances, or are sociopaths, or have neglected to mature emotionally and intellectually past the age of three, or have messianic complexes -- and that they have to muddle through life somehow too, just like I do.

I don't know anout Kim, but obviously, I am a Virgo, in case that somehow managed to slip past anyone -- with Mercury and Neptune conjunct in Libra too, which should explain a lot to those who know the meanings of these things. Like ... why I can't help it. This is just how I talk, and a part of who I am. I have a need to analyze and then to balance whatever comes my way -- and when I apply it to music, it can actually be a good thing.

Sigh.

Some, if not all, of what I just said has already been stated in recent posts -- probably better and certainly more succinctly. I know that, too. And please excuse any typos, if you've actually read this far. It's late, and I'm not going to look this over before posting. I'll check it tomorrow.

Thanks for keeping the forums open. Only reason I mentioned the other Arlo places was that if this place was gone they'd be all I'd have left Arlo wise. Yikes!

I'm going to stick my neck way out here, and suggest the possibility that Dave was maybe kidding about banning Cheryl...

muffy posted;

: "I disagree with what you say, but will defend to the death your right
to say it." (I'll leave it to Todd and/or Nathan to clean that up for
me, and tell us who said it.)

_____________

Voltaire

you're welcome.

RB, i never assumed to know what Arlo thinks, for my own benefit. I asked Dave if he would send that "pacifist" post to the Guthries, he said he would....his viewpoint, his choice...I did say that the Guthries value diversity. Do you diasgree, with that, RB?
I didn't see Sherry's question as a serious one... so, I didn't answer her. She suggested I wanted to wind this down, because it "wasn't going my way" "My way", in this instance was to express my feelings, about what happened, prior to Zowie leaving, and Dave's pacifist" post, I've done that..
So, all this "back & forth stuff" now, really dosen't occupy many pixels on my radar screen of concern
Deb cleared up my misinterpretation of what happened, & we agreed to disagree about Zowie's post
I like what you posted, Muffy....

<center><FONT COLOR="#000080">--- Edited 1 times, lastly by Bumper on Oct 24, 2001 ---</FONT></center>

You shouldn't be paranoid unless you have sugar. Can't see where I isolated you Bumper, but I can tell sarcasm when I see it. I don't need to ride on Sherry's coat-tails, so my purpose is none. If I know Sherry (the way I'd guess) she'd have none of that anyhow!

I dissagree with putting values on other people, when the obvious is slapping you in the face.

Right Sparky......Just say right!....LOL

and Larry Do YOU believe this shit???

I got a haircut, but a REAL Job.

since rb didn't answer, is it okay for me to take it, bumper? yes, the guthries value diversity...they, also, have a sense of humor...warped at times. i don't presume to speak for any of them, nor can i read their minds. however, i have heard arlo tell jokes, that would probably be considered "politically incorrect", over the years. add that to something i've heard abe say more than once..."welcome to the dark side"...and i'm just guessing that they can tell the difference between a joke and a serious condemnation of a particular group...in this case, pacifists. now, whether they would find dave's joke funny, i have no real idea. but, i think to presume that they would find it NOT funny is just as wrong.

sure Deb, , i understand your and Rb's views, on this..mine differs, a bit, so be it.....no problem there to me...

now, back to our regularly scheduled program

the progress of Larry's cat drive... when last we visited, he & his herd were about to ford the Platte river, cats were at the bank, hippies & blunderites were milling about....
seeemingly unmotivated by the promise of fresh catnip on the opposite shore....

<center><FONT COLOR="#000080">--- Edited 1 times, lastly by Bumper on Oct 24, 2001 ---</FONT></center>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by rbrown:


and Larry Do YOU believe this shit???

.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Nope!

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Bumper:

sure Deb, , i understand your and Rb's views, on this..mine differs, a bit, so be it.....no problem there to me...

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

since my view is that NONE of us should presume to KNOW how any of the guthries would react to dave's "joke", am i to assume that means that you do think someone can presume to know? because that's what happened here...people said they didn't like it because it wasn't in keeping with arlo's "message"...they were presuming to know what arlo thought based on his recordings, i guess...unless they have personal knowledge of what he thinks about every single thing.

thanks, Dave...