As far as what I hope to understand from posting these - is if racism is viewed by differently by different parts of the country.

As you can see from my replies below I feel both emails are racist and hateful.

I hope this discussion helps all who read it think about what racism is.


This is my sarcastic response (repy to all) to the first one...
(I haved added italics to all the emails for clairity)


Wow, Thanks Mike.

Oh my, nothing funnier than racism and hatred. You put the big right back in bigotry. Makes me proud to be an American.

Zig Heil Mien Führer - Words that harken back to the days when one could enslave and murder all those people who are not just like us.

PS - I guess Mike opted off your mailing list recently. He might find this
funny, yeah, him and Glenda both. If you would like I'll go ahead and
forward this to both of them.

The 2nd Mike (not the sender) and Glenda are black co-workers. Glenda's cubicle is near mine and I would have been very unhappy if she had seen me open either of these emails.

Mike apologized in person the next time we met. He thought the email was funny and said he is not a racist. He said' "It would have been funny about any group - like mexicans too." Ah, racist again?

The person who sent the second one was part of the group the first one was sent to. He was also included in the above reply to all the first one was sent to. He knew how I felt about this.

My initial reply to the 2nd one...

Larry,

Please remove me from your list of people that accept racist hate mail.

Thanks,

Doug


Which prompted this response from Larry...(sic)

I see, so as long as it was about PRESIDENT Bush, all was fair game. Now it is considered hate mail. That a double standard even in liberal standards.
Don't you think>
Larry

My reply to that...

Larry,

If you are confused as to what racist hate mail is, this guideline may
help... If it could get you fired if it was in the hands of say HR or
Glenda, you may not want to send it. And if you are not sure if what you
sent is in fact racist and hateful, then go ahead and apply the guidelines
I mentioned.

And I sent a bcc: to our supervisor, who Larry had also sent the 2nd one to. Gary said he had deleated it without opening it. He thanked me for bringing this to his attention as he did read mine. I had changed the subject title to "RE:Racist Hate Mail."

Here is our supervisors reply...

Larry,

Please add me to that list as well.

Thanks,
Gary

Not sure what Larry's future with the company will be. I truly hope he does not get fired. But if he does I am sure he will think it my fault.

It's been said here that the stuff posted doesn't belong here. I'm not sure I agree. As I said, I found it very offensive as well, but we are largely as a group, a bunch of thinking adults. It's good to know what is out there, both good and bad. Like they say, keep your friends close and your enemies closer.
With any luck, the small minded bigots might learn something after a time and come to find out that THEY are the new minority.
Race is still an issue for some, but we have made progress.
It appears that Doug and Shelly, to name two, have already made progress in helping to educate the bigots by their actions. Good for them.

I will soon be the grandfather of twins that will be part African American. I pray that when they are old enough to vote, this kind of stuff will be ancient history. I've kinda been thinking about writing some kind of log/letter/book for my future grandkids to read about the times their grandparents and parents grew up in, the times now, and what changes we have seen as a society and as individuals.

Oh, and Doug, tell that other Larry guy that we may have to revoke his membership in the Larry Club, since he is giving us a bad name. We ARE after all, a restricted club.....he should understand that.

Thanks Doug. My African American friends have shared their experiences of racism, which continue on to this day.
Have a nice day
Cheryl

That's a great idea, Larry. I teach in a diverse state, the school district is probably 85% or more "Hispanic." However, many of these kids call each other "racist." I finally realized that they use this word like any other insult; but they have no idea what it means. I don't tolerate the use of that word, whether they know the meaning or not. I try to educate them as to the meaning, though.

The reason why I put the word "Hispanic" in quotes is because most of these kids have no idea that the original Spanish settlers were "white" and that they are "darker" than I am because of their Indian ancestry. Here the term "Hispanic" means "not Anglo." Well, I'm not Hispanic, nor am I "Anglo." Here in New Mexico, terminology is so different from back east.

To make things further complex, the US Hispanics hate the Mexican Hispanics. I can't tell the difference. But even if a kid has been here since a year old or so, that person is still a "Mexican." They throw the term "Mexican" around like another insult. It drives me crazy! I try to remind them that "New" Mexico used to be "Old" Mexico, but it falls on deaf ears. Some kids are suprised to learn that I'm "white!" Amazing, isn't it?

So, I think a book would be a great idea. Maybe we can all contribute a chapter from our own childhoods?

[/quote]

Nah. My plan is for a personal thing from grandpa to grandkids.

I'm afraid that racism, even among some of our friends, percolates both above and below the surface. In the course of the campaign and election, people who I thought I knew have come out with statements that have come close to crossing or have crossed the racism and/or religious bigotry line. While Barack Obama's election has given me reason to believe that people can come around, the small mindedness of others has given it a bittersweet taste and makes me feel that, as a world community, we are still crawling out of the darkness and have a very, very long way to go.

My feeling is that the purpose of the original post was to ensure that we are awake to the fact that racism is a very real problem. This was a great reminder to us, in this "hooray for us, we got Obama elected" time, that there's a lot of work to do.

I've been thinking about how it would be possible to open the eyes of people who, narrow-mindedly (is this a word?), see the color of a persons skin as a problem. Going in a pushing, I'm not sure would work. Seems like that would just cause people to raise their shields, fold their arms across their chest, stick out their chins and collectively shut out any different idea (that they already have).

Not amazing to us--It's the way it is in the Southwest (not just New Mexico). And yes, you are Anglo to them; you might as well get used to that. Using relative color terms is another way to establish a social hierarachy, as in so many cultures--a "bright" Hispanic may have more status than a "dark" one (or vice versa), so to refer to yourself as "white" could cause offense--not so much with the kids, probably, but with the parents or grandparents. You're safer with "Anglo" whether or not your heritage is British. (When Jay was just out of high school, the father of an Hispanic girl he was dating cut it off because he didn't want his daughter "associating with brights.")

A note of caution; the kids may not know or care, but their parents may be highly insulted if you point out that they probably have Indian genes. In many parts of Mexico and even in some long-time U.S. families with a Mexican heritage, it's considered good to be "Spanish" and shaming to be "Indian." It's sad to us, but it is what it is, and it derives directly from Mexican social and political history.

Good luck with navigating the shoals of a new-to-you culture. It's never easy.

Shelley, you cleared up a lot for me. It was a complete shock to me to find out that anyone with a Spanish heritage was "hispanic" as opposed to Spanish. Back east, "hispanic" meant those from the Caribean islands, mainly Puerto Rico.

I never heard the term "bright" before... as a racial thing.

One day my kids were discussing chocolate: milk chocolate vs. dark chocolate. As the bell to begin class was about to ring, I let it go, piping up that I prefer dark chocolate because it's heart healthy. Well, that brought a roar of laughter; they were talking about skin color.

Racisme = egoisme ( i dont want to say more )

You are so very right.. no more need be said, except that it is staring us in the face... will we let it stare us down?

I have a dream ( these are famous words for you Americans ) But in Europe whe have also problems with racisme . That dream is also mine .

i have been known that is not a reliable gauge...!