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PostPosted: Sat Mar 22, 2008 1:14 am
  

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Joined: Oct 12, 2005
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Location: Axachusetts of New New England
I don't know if our noses can smell the Swingtown we could be at. Which music land is. Somehow this Moody Blues song truth, is keeping us from getting there:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VjTCQG6d ... re=related

Until we stop scorching this earth, we all my end up in limbo.


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PostPosted: Sat May 31, 2008 9:36 pm
  

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Location: Eastern North America from Key West to points north
You clowns are all perfectly sane, I play the bagpipes. Makes the harmonica seem hygenic, but a lot more portable than the piano. :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: Musicians, chime in!
PostPosted: Sun Mar 08, 2009 5:29 pm
  

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I started when I was eight with my father, a country-blues picker. Played the churches and the bars until I could bill under my own name. All the of the bands were songwriting bands, so we left a lot of tracks in 2-4-8-16-infinite formats. I like to write. My last work was for a children's play and a gm Latin mass for church choir. Experimenting with real-time 3D formats is the lab. I'm not great. Just persistent. :-)

Otherwise, a folkie. You can find me at www.myspace.com/lenbullard

Music is adventure.

On another topic I can't find, someone asked for guitar basics. If there is a better topic for this, please send me there. I don't want to offend the excellent pickers here, but for the beginners, some hints:

1. Your hand is everything from your elbow to your fingertips. The more curve in your wrist, the further muscles have to run through crooked turns. Relax and uncurl.

2. Close economical fingering sounds better and the hands last longer. When learning tab, make sure the chords follow the need for

frets: behind them but comfortably. Squeeze too hard and not only do you get tired, you will pull the strings out of tune.

pivots: finger stays down while you move into another chord within position. Turn on that finger. This is a shared tone between two chords in a progression and are nice to know when writing harmonies for voices.

guides: finger stays lightly down when sliding across positions. Often out of pivots.

position scales: very good for classical. A bit messed up for blues. Pentatonics are narcotics. Enjoy.

Three finger scales: bluesy but if you can't break free of them, a ball and chain.

3. Has your guitar been setup by a professional tech that you love like a brother or sister? If not, have someone show you the by sight way to setup the action. Tone and tuning become much easier.

4. Use a capo but use the right one. Capos tend to pull a guitar out of tune, particularly, electrics. Acoustics not so much. Solid bar chord technique and finger-picking together is a very strong jazz comp style. Take the folk walking bass and work it into a bar chord part.

5. Play with other people as much as you can. Natch. Be humble. The worst guitar player you meet has something to show you. It doesn't mean you want to listen, but if its a kid, show'em something. If it's an old street player, put a bill in his hat. Kindness comes around.

6. Strum. Until you can strum cleanly on one chord, don't learn the next one. By that I mean, we tend to think the hard hand is the fret hand. The picking hand is harder. Most tone problems are in the pick hand.

7. Software is your friend. I would have traded my kidneys for Guitare Pro or something like it. A decent guitar tab editor and synth opens up a lot of learning opportunity as well as composition. It's always better to play with real players, but the guitar tab editor is a way to explore in your mind what your hands don't know yet.

8. Less is more. Woody weed until it shines. Particularly true of chords and pedal/digital effects. Jeff Beck used to criticize players who turn on effects and leave them on. Bad color juju.

9. New strings are a narcotic. Enjoy.


10. Rules? Learn 'em, break 'em, make 'em up and get on with it.
Let the blue flames begin!


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 Post subject: Re: Musicians, chime in!
PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2009 12:14 pm
  

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Joined: Dec 23, 2005
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I've been playing the No Name Song, and trying to learn to strum better (just seems weird to hold a pick). I totally suck at strumming. And as soon as I can get my violin fixed I'll be starting that again. :)


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 Post subject: Re: Musicians, chime in!
PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2009 2:09 pm
  

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A pick is weird. Fingernails are natural.

When time permits, go to a music shop and get some different picks and try them. The stiffer the pick, the harder it is to hold until you get used to it. A Rule of Pick is very hard stiff ones are used by fast lead players, where the medium give a little are used by strummers. If the pick keeps jumping out of your hand, you are probably holding it too tightly or digging at the strings too hard. A lighter more flexible pick helps. Nylon picks help and some have raised ridges on the end between the fingers to help you hang on. A friend of mine who trained with Larry Carlton actually uses small polished rocks (yes, rocks). They produce great tone but take expertise to hang on to.

Everyone flips the audience off with a pick eventually. That is why you often see a line of them down the mic stand.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2009 2:14 pm
  

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Strumming is'nt easy , there are so many different rythmic variations . What helps me is counting when i strum . Maybe it helps also if you put thinner strings on your acoustic guitar . :)


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2009 4:05 pm
  

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A cheap drum machine helps or if you have a computer, download some drum loops, or raid the midi drum tracks. Also a boon for writers sorta. Almost any desktop has a soundcard with basic sounds and these days, even the cheap ones are worthy.

Again, I recommend a copy of Guitar Pro because a) it's simple b) it's **cheap** c) it has utilities for learning scales, interprets scores, imports and exports midi and d) was programmed by a guitarist for guitarists. It's French but you can't hold that against them. :wink: Most software packages have too much stuff for too many jobs and that makes them hard to learn and buggy. GP is like the three bear's porridge: just right.

Just as the fret hand suffers from too much curvature, the pick hand needs to be loose especially when doing a lot of different rhythms. Hold the pick by pressing the bottom side (with the fingerprint) against the side of the index finger like you hold a book not on the tips like you squeeze a... uh... watermelon seed. That second position will cause you to bend your hand and fight the wrist. Again, the hand is everything from the elbow to the finger. If your shoulder is moving a lot, you are probably holding the pick stiffly and locking your wrists. Habits like that can slow you down, keep you off beat, and hurt like the dickens when you go to bed.

Some get focused on downstrokes and while good for some rock and trad jazz, it won't work well for full chord polyrhythmic stuff. IMHO, a good Arlo tune for practicing syncopated strumming is the cover of Hoyt Axton's Lightning Bar. The chord progression is easy and the rhythm is righteous fun.

When in ensemble (or even wearing overalls), don't play all the chord all the time unless that is needed. Repeat after me: less is more. This varies by style but many don't get the idea that all guitarists in first position or the same position is like having many piano players with many hands on top of the same notes on the piano. If one player is in first position strumming full chords, the next guy should be maybe in the middle of the neck hitting downbeats, or finger picking or something. In other words, spread out and get the sound pianists get by keeping their hands apart. It's just basic orchestral technique but again, Rules??? If you are having fun and no one is whispering in your ear to turn down or go away, it's all good.


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 Post subject: Re: Musicians, chime in!
PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2009 9:13 pm
  

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Joined: Dec 06, 1999
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Location: Ogdensburg, NY ST. Lawrence
Attachment:
Leons birthday Stargazer helps reminsiss.jpg
Leons birthday Stargazer helps reminsiss.jpg [ 6.36 KiB | Viewed 11191 times ]


Mr. Leon Russell, after hrs. b-day.... looking at photo albums of the past...

photo credit/Stargazer


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 Post subject: Re: Musicians, chime in!
PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2009 11:38 pm
  

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OK, I read in the postings that the strumming is the hardest part. I've always thought making the chords is the hard part, although at my current age, remembering the chords is difficult enough. I've thought about turning my guitar around because I'm left-handed, but if the chords are the hardest, I'd think my left hand could do that part easier. Besides, the guitar would look funny up-side down, with the pick guard on top. In the past when I tried to use a pick with my right hand, it fliped into the hole in the guitar. It's all very confusing. I've heard that left-handed people hear music differently than right handers. Something about the left-brain/right-brain thing processing the sounds differently.
:roll:


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 10, 2009 1:30 am
  

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Joined: Dec 06, 1999
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In my opinion. & I've been tinkering with the guitar for 40 yrs. And I'm still an amatuer. But chords are maybe the easiest to learn. The basic, major chords are very easy. They just take practice. And strumming is purty easy.... Even bar chords aren't that hard.. given a lil practice.

The hardest part for me, is finger picking..... e.p. I can strum allot of songs. ep. say a Towne's Van Zandt song. Poncho & Lefty. I can strum the thing, and sing it, and basically sound kinda like Townes or Willie... But it's an easy chord progression. But finger picking it out still comes very hard for me...

Sts. of Laredo... I can strum that song, capoed down on the 4th fret. It sounds okay, yet it's a campfire song, that to me, just sounds good. Nuthing like Dylan or Guthrie picking it string for string...

another ex... I can play Dylans "Don't think Twice" But I strum the damn thing... It sounds okay, but again, nuthin like Arlo picking it string for string...

The BEST example I can come up with. Is Elizebeth Cottens song 'Freight Train" ... Again, I strum or rather play the chords... Cotten and other renditions, have this unique style of finger picking every string, where the melody of the music is differant than the singing of the song...

I suppose it sounds good enough when I strum it... It's like

C/G/G/C/Em/F/C/G/C

Anyhow that's my experience, tho self taught....

BUT, believe it or not, I can sing 'Frieght Train' and carry a tune, better than ol Elizebeth Cotten.. LOL (rest her soul)..... I love that melody she wrote for the tune, but her voice tears me to shreds....

Love that song tho, and her style of guitar playin ( picken)

I can pick a few songs,, but they are the exeption...

Like the Stones 'Wild Horses" Or Neil Youngs 'Rockin In the Free World..

Like Wild horses, is a neato... I play it B/G// then walk up to Am, then back to C which has a walk down to the 3rd fret, back to G/D and on & on... I'm not holding my guitar, so that helps... I really don't know why, some songs, I can finger pick, and the rest I strum... Don't get me wrong, some songs sound great, just being stummed.... the Beatles song " Don't Hide Your Love Away" is a whole bunch of chords ( I need a cheat sheet) but it's all strumming and sounds great...

Great luck. I love playing and learning new stuff on guitar. It keeps the cob webs outta my brain... and enhances my memory, memorizing lyrics... One of my fav's is Woody's "So Long it's Been Good to Know You" it's like 5 or 6 verses, with the chorus every other time.... Remembering them in order is very easy for me, as the song tells a story... Any song that tells a story, for me, is easier to remember.... Thier like short novels.... That's why cowboy songs are my fav.. I love storys of the old west....

Again Good luck/RB/Practice/Practice/Practice :lol:

Some songs come easy, but most songs, that require finger picking are hard...

As I mentioned, that's been my experience...


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 Post subject: Re: Musicians, chime in!
PostPosted: Tue Mar 10, 2009 9:39 am
  

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I'm an amateur too but don't tell the IRS. Inside the guitar is the first place I look for a pick, BTW. The hard part is shaking it out.

I don't think strumming is the hard part; I think the pick hand (typically the right hand) is the hard part because most of the tone production and timing is in that hand. Regardless of strumming or fingerpicking, that is the hand that produces most of the tone (not all, but most).

For example, in classical styles, there is the concept of a rest stroke. The picking finger pushes down on the string and comes to rest against the next string, a technique common in single string melodies. The reason of course is that the vibratory direction is parallel to the sound board, not perpendicular, and that produces the fattest tone from the resonator. When strumming, we sweep back and forth perpendicularly and that works but it is not the fattest tone. Players compensate in lead riffs with fatter picks to push down and because they don't give as much, get more speed.

They also compensate with fatter strings and a lot of blues players tune the guitar to Eb. I suggest if you do that to dedicate a guitar to it if you can because retuning strings a lot kills them fast and if the guitar is set up correctly, tends to unset it. It also makes other guitarists trying to follow you a little crazy if they are in a standard tuning. Altered tunings, btw, are a narcotic. Like the capo, very useful but can keep you from learning solid chord technique. Rules???

Finger picking is easier for me probably because when young, picks were harder to come by and because when I was growing up, PPM, Kingston Trio, Arlo, Chet Atkins (met him; interesting fellow) were finger pickers. We are what we eat or who. The hard part usually isn't a simple finger style but syncopation with the thumb holding a bass pattern in a stride. Independent movement is an illusion, by the way. The fingers are working together. A trick I stumbled onto was to think of the thumb as bouncing and feeling that. Syncopation, imo, is a feel one develops because trying to think through it paralyzes the hand. If you can find a Happy Traum method, there are good exercises. Work really slow with a foot tap or a drum machine, or just count.

A full-throated C chord in first position (6/4) with the third finger on the bass G, fourth finger on C, or if you are brave, alternate the third finger, is a good chord to practice. Let the thumb bounce between C and G to get that old fashioned oompah bass. Use the next three fingers to outline the chord from E (second fret) to G (open) to C (first fret). Try the CG pattern in the thumb and pick all three of the other stings simultaneously. Boomchuck Boomchuck. Once that is comfortable, then try the EGDG pattern (BoomchuckaDucka). It may seem silly, but say it out loud while you pick it. That verbalization fixes the rhythm in your head and is, btw, a technique tabla players use to express patterns to each other and sitar players. Once you get that, then try switching between a C chord and a G chord (with or without the dominant seventh on the first string (F)). Then try an A minor using the A and E bass pattern. You are on your way to Malaguena. :D

It took me a long time to quit tapping my foot. It aggravates a board man to death in the studio.


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 Post subject: Re: Musicians, chime in!
PostPosted: Tue Mar 10, 2009 11:05 am
  

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The picking/strumming hand is always harder to learn because there's so much variation in music...and every song needs a different treatment, and every person has a different idea of what that should be. All I have to offer is that what you learn on different instruments WILL transfer over to guitar. I picked up autoharp along the way...it's all about picking and strumming, and it taught me more about fingerpicking and strumming than the six strings on a guitar. Once I figured out how to play Irish fiddle tunes fingerpicked on autoharp, fingerpicking/strumming on guitar was a lot easier. I learned the timing and music theory through my fiddle lessons, and it all works on any instrument I pick up,


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 Post subject: Re: Musicians, chime in!
PostPosted: Tue Mar 10, 2009 11:49 am
  

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Absolutely Sue. My first instrument taught me to play. My second instrument taught me music. It's the Great MetaDance.

Religion was the same. The first one taught me to to worship. The second one taught me to love. The third one taught me to be. I can't say I'm fully accepting of all styles of music or all practices of religion, but I know it's not place to change anyone's mind about it as long as they aren't trying to change mine by force.

Music started out as a way to get attention, then to give it. Now it is love and being. Ultimately, that was the freedom I wanted all along. So now if I am asked to compose for a children's play, a website or a church service (heck, even a 3D sex site), it's all music and I write for the gig instead of myself. The view from the cheap seats is at least panoramic. Without stepping outside the one religion or the one instrument, it wouldn't be possible for me.


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 Post subject: Re: Musicians, chime in!
PostPosted: Tue Mar 10, 2009 6:29 pm
  

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The problem abouth strumming ( rythm ) is that in most songs that i wonna play the chords are written by the lyrics but almost never the rythm . For that reason i must help myself mostly with a basic rythm. For me its difficult to find the real rythm of a song :? . Are there any tricks to find out ? :)


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 10, 2009 7:14 pm
  

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Assuming you have a recording, play along with that. A rhythm has strong beats and weak beats. Strong beats are typically downbeats depending on the time signature: say 4/4, it will be 1 and 3 for straight music and 2 and 4 for syncopated. (Please let me avoid the racial labels. Sick to death of that.)

There is rhythm notation but assuming you don't read that (I don't either), how you get the rhythm depends on style. For example, if you are playing a boomchuck, you are usually hitting one string, the bass note, then playing the chord and might be as in the example, alternating on an interval, say 1 and 5 (C and G) in a stride or country folk style. Think the PPM version of If I Had A Hammer.

Where a chord changes is typically a strong beat but not always. Also, good lyrics have clues to how the rhythm should work. If you need to, recopy the lyrics and make each phrase a single line that matches the rhythm. Then it becomes easier to see it as you sing along.

Have you tried the MySpace kareoke pages? The old bouncing ball is a pretty good timekeeper and you can learn with a track that you can stop and start. Again, a midi file can be imported into most sequencers and then, as with Guitar Pro, you can slow it down, analyze chords, find out where changes really are instead of the lyrics which can be very wrong. One caution: midi imports almost never get the correct fingering. The computer has to guess and it optimizes differently depending on the programmer. With some exceptions, if a chord feels bad under your hand when you change to the next chord, the fingering is probabaly wrong.

Indian musicians use a syllabic vocal rendition. It's something like:

Boom tec Boom tec boom teca tec tec.

Whatever. You can say that out loud or tap a rhythm out with your hand on your knee. The point is that until you feel that rhythm, your hand won't play it. When sorting it out of the recording, try to hear what the drummer is doing with the snare drum. Usually you want to be there with the drummer. I'm assuming here that you aren't trying to cop licks from a jazz master with really complex patterns. It's ok but unless someone is helping you, it might be frustrating.

Do loosen up the wrist and if you are dropping the pick, get a lighter pick. Really flimsy ones make a poor sound but just get one you can hang on to until you are comfortable.

Stay with it. It pays off.


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