I'm a Union man myself. As Americans, we all are (even the women), for the same reasons that our ancestors began forming a more perfect union, The United States people should apply the same benefits of those principals living in the modern age.

The idea of there being a worker bee class, and a queen bee regime is one that is not American, in nature or in ideology. It is simply not an indigenous philosophy. We got rid of that system a couple of hundred years ago.

It was (and still is) easy enough to exploit immigrants coming from less perfect unions as they enter the factories and working environments in the US, as they have a different sense of what equality and justice is all about. With no American revolution, new arrivals bring many different cultural values, chief among them, the worker and queen bee ideology, as exists in warlord culture for example.

King George, The Former, would not have understood what all the ruckus was about. After all, as a decider it was perfectly within his rights to decide to create a nation of serfs (that would be us), and nobles (that would be them). We'd do the work required to sustain and maintain the system. We'd plow the fields, gather the grain, make the bread, give it to him, and he'd give us back enough to sustain us while we made some more. Makes sense, especially if you're name was King George.

As more and more immigrant influences converge within the US, it is easy to lose sight of what this nation is all about. We are moving from a system where laws defend the rights given to everyone by their creator, to a system where rights are a matter of who you know, and where on food chain you are. This system governs most inner cities subcultures, and extends to the farm lands today. It governs the corporate world universally. The American spirit is almost gone.

George, The Present, would like to pass laws, which would create a permanent system of new serfs who will work to support a new nobility. He calls it a guest worker system. Sounds like the old George to me.

" I knew that as I went through life, smart was not gunna be a big time word for me". BALDERDASH!
Love the King George analogies! Of Course in a world where we sometimes have to do unusual things to get folks to perhaps listen to our point of view, Arlo is smart enough to tell people he ain't smart(cuz people like that) and George the present is dumb enough to tell people he is smart.

I have not read all the provisions of some of the immigration stuff that is being proposed, but in addition to the above mentioned serf concepts, there may be in some of the proposed stuff something that brings to mind the concept of the indentured servent. Some of the stuff I've seen suggests that people may be able to buy their way into the system if they have been here a while.Which may or may not be fair depending on how long they may have used public services and what economic level they might be at.

Well when i do think, i see alot of similarity between 200 years ago and even 2000 years ago in the middle east. Oh the spirit of this land is gone from the people i've ran into in my travels. I lived in I-ow-wa? 2 diferent times.
Though even a peaceful movement that would make a difference for the world, wouldn't be a good idea as long as we have King George.-(Well, I 've done some reading about things i haven't explained)
I knew you were a Union Man Arlo. They are the smaller gov we need, for they can take care of healthcare, pensions and even employment. And on a local level.

Oh, just a shot at Thomas Jefferson:I wasn"t created, I was born. Do i have a right to drive my car now, so i can get back in my Union. Its the IBEW which stands for, I've Been Every Where, and I'm Broke Every Week.

Well, something might be about to happen:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19431554/

yeah Lar, just saw it on Lehrer
Did Larry and I just communicate about something serious????

Sorry Louise. I didn't do it on purpose. Musta been a brain cramp.

Last time I had the electrician over he was gettin 75.00 an hour, plus the apprentice.

Well, I guess you are lucky he wasn't Union. lol
Constructuion has no security to it. Especiallly for a Land that is built.
I can see lots of American Construction workers going over seas to help build Africa.
But if America is an example of how to do things right, right now, there is no reason to push that issue.

I would like to add just a note on globalization. Yes, I strongly agree illegal immigration is ruining this county. I live in Arizona and also see the effects of it.

Globalization is also hurting this county, after all how often if at all is any merchandise produced here? We can see how greedy capitalization has effected our economy and the Ceo's and others for CHEAPER LABOR. The aspect being overlooked is the quality of anything has gone downhill.

I am an old blue-collar swamp yankee from some time back and honestly I see things changing yet not for the better.

Sincerely,
Carol

Personally,..... I DON'T believe in TWO sides.


.....But the country IS a two-party system. (I'm a card-carrying third-party-er).


BUT, it seems that NEITHER side can recognise that the government is bigger than it SHOULD be.

Seems the bigger the Fed gets,..... the worse-off we all are. What we NEED to do is chop the government at EVERY level, BACK down to where it actually falls into the parameters outlined in the Constitution.

But today,..... the Constitution is a meaningless piece of paper on display, under glass.

.....It's the PAPER that's important,..... NOT the wording printed upon it.




We need it back.

ehh. I can't say I'm on the same page with you Arlo and I'd like to tell you why...

While I've never liked GW, his guest worker program is a compromise to the polarized opinions of the citizens of our country. Half of them want to open the borders because in their opinion, it's the right thing to do. Help a guy out who needs to feed his family and provide something that he wouldn't be able to do in his homeland... while the other half is concerned about fiscal responsibility and holding those who control the money that runs through our gov't accountable for the tax dollars being spent by those who don't contribute. At the same time those very same people are worried about the national security implications that come with having open borders, (which frankly concerns me the most). I can see both sides of the coin here and in the efforts to please everyone, GW's compromise to both sides seems like the best idea so far. I don't think those who want to throw out all the "illegal" immigrants understand the ramifications that would have on our economy and certain aspects of our agricultural industry among other industries. At same time, those who want to invite everyone in with open arms don't consider that we are giving an invitation for those outside to bankrupt the system causing price hikes across the board and ultimately screwing Joe Q. Consumer. I noted that no one has mentioned terrorism yet either. Being that so many people outside our country hate us, its not hard to speculate what could happen should we not monitor who crosses our borders.

That being said, GW's guest worker program is well intended and I don't think that the intention is to set up a new caste system.

Side note, for the last 18 months here in the REALLY hot city of Baghdad, I've shared Alice's Restaurant with many and you got some new fans from the younger generation who aren't folkslinger savvy. I'm ordering the new album tomorrow. Take care.

-Dave

Dave, you don't say if you're a soldier or contractor, or how long (if at all) since you've been able to visit home. It's different than even 18 months ago re. immigration, at least in the Southwest.

I usually get egged when I talk about my job. I used to be active duty but now I'm an IT contractor. I just got back from vacation actually. I try to take off every 4 or 5 months if certain variables allow it. Love the job. I play a big role in keeping the troops safe and even though I've been against the war from the beginning, I care deeply about my military bretheren who are just following orders. I'm not quite following you in reference to things being different 18 months ago. Are you refering to immigration or Iraq?

If America was as rightoues as it claims, there would never have been 9-11. And we would or should have nothing to fear from the People coming up from Mexico, or souther, to stop from starving. (I don't care if they didn't see the need to wait in line, while hungry)
Our unconditional support of Israel was a major cause of 9-11. The US of A has been pointing its guns at others for a long long time. And I do think the cold war was a hoax. Russia was never go to invade us. Nor will China Today.
There is a fair way to Peace. The best way I have heard of is the Worker Ownership of the Mondragon Cooperative of the Basque of Northern Spain. You will have to checkout for yourselves that the Workers really do own the Banks. While education, .s.s. and unemployment is also covered.
It won't start in this broken promised land until the TV, OIL and Telephone are owned by the People, pretty much like the Post Office is set up.-To keep things simple.
When the US of A shows the rest of the World how to do it right, it will have nothing to fear.
In the mean time, I'm waiting for the time abortions are banned and women really devide this country by going out in the street. Why can someone in Congress on TV tell me how many there were last year, while they are still legal? The right has got to except them or this whole land will explode from within.