I'm wondering if anyone's been following the Terri Schiavo situation, especially what's been going on all day today (Sunday).

I'm particularly interested since I'm taking a philosophy class on death and dying and the rights we have/don't have.

Anyone care to weigh in on this one?

I've been following her case & it is sad what happened to her. I am glad the govt is intervening & trying to save her because I'd hate to see her die. And also from what I read here hubby wants her to die so he can go off & marry the chick he's been fooling around with. Maybe he doesn't care about her anymore but her parents do. May God be with her & her parenets at this time. It's such a sad situation... <img src="http://www.arlo.net/ubb/smilies/peace.gif" width=16 height=16>

I guess I'll weigh in on the other side.

Cheryl, I agree with you that this is a sad case. But that's where we part.

I'm an old fashioned liberal who actually believes the (now claimed by the conservatives) mantra about less government being best.

I believe and support a nation of laws. I don't think that laws should be changed or added on a case-by-case basis. Interpreting laws and carrying them out is the job of the judicial branch of government.

Philosophically, I don't think a case has been made that her husband "doesn't care about her anymore." Maybe he cares for her enough to let her go. From my experience, it is usually selfishness that makes us want to keep alive someone lingering in a bad way.

I too hate to see her die. But I accept that she's going to die. This week, this decade . . . it's a fate coming to each of us - regardless of acts of Congress.

Listen to grandpasteve on this, Cheryl. It's not about the people and facts of this case at all (which you have all wrong, anyway). It's about political grandstanding and whether any of us want government to intercede in our family decisions. State courts here in Florida have adjudicated the issue of what the poor woman's wishes were; her husband is trying to carry them out. Would any of us want more?

Republican Conservatives are quick to say they want government out of individual's lives. In fact, they want government intervention only where it suits them in furthering their political/religious agendas.

This case even hit the paper over here, though it was written in such a tone that Bush was trying to score some points with the 'right wing' Christian lobby.

I don't know much at all about this , but I do feel for her and her family, both her husband (how ever you might have interpreted it Cheryl he must have loved her and still love her dearly to marry her in the first place and care for her all these years) and my thoughts go to her parents.

I hadn't thought of that the govt getting too involved in everything. I guess I was too busy being glad someone was trying to save her. Hope all goes well for her...

There’s a court case going on here in Connecticut (Litchfield) where an elderly gentleman assisted a friend who was suffering in great pain and dying from prostate cancer in his suicide. While outside with his friend he loaded his friend’s revolver (as the ill man was unable to do), instructed him on the most effective placement of the revolver and then walked away. A few minutes later he heard the gunshot and alerted the authorities.

While the state is going through the motions (arrest, trial, etc.) the man is expected to get probation only. Perhaps the good that may come out of this is a law in Connecticut to support the right of an individual to die with dignity and end needless suffering and pain. Time will tell. But while we feel justified in euthanizing a beloved pet to alleviate their pain and suffering as the right and compassionate thing, we will sometimes leave our own loved ones (or in this case, a complete stranger) to endure a silent limbo or a living hell of agony and pain, not in their best interests, but rather to feed our own self-centered notion that we know what’s right for them or some skewed idea of morality fueled by religious fervor rather than compassion.

Jack Kevorkian sits in prison for doing the same as the elderly gentleman in Litchfield did while Bush and a majority of Congress, who are claiming to respect the sanctity of life, have sent over 1500 of our service people to their deaths, as well as countless (tens of thousands?) innocent civilians, and maimed so many more over lies and deceit. Such hypocrisy!

Captain Zap

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Right you are, Captain Zap, and it's all done under the mantra of a "culture of life." Meanwhile, Tom Delay hides behind all the smoke hoping his ethics violations are swept under the rug.

Well said, Steve, Mikey and Zap...

I have a living will, and all three of my children have a copy of it. It states clearly that I don't want any extraordinary measures, and if there is little likelihood of my returning to a state of 'normal' consciousness, I don't want to be kept alive. There is no point in draining the family's finances and its emotions in a prolonged state of inertia.

I've talked about it with my children and with my sisters as well. I encourage all of you to think through what you would want, and fill out a Living Will form. You can get the forms from your doctor or local hospital, usually at no charge.

I could probably take both sides here. I don't believe Congress should get involved, & The Wall Street Journal referred to a Republican memo that discussed how they could score points in the next election by getting involved in this case, so I'm skeptical of motives here, to say the least.

But the right to die here is just one issue. The parents say that Terry would have wanted to be kept alive, but the husband sez the opposite. So this case is also about what somebody mighta wanted. If I were a Congressman presented with this vote, how would I vote? It's easy to comment on, but I suspect not as easy to vote on. (Note that the Republicans started this, but lotsa Democrats voted with them.) There's a couple troublesome aspects to me.

First, from the TV footage that I saw, she is responsive to visitors. If it were me in that situation, a visit from my kids or wife would be such a precious thing, provided I could recognize them, maybe it would make up for the suffering, just to see them or hear them, even if I couldn't talk back. I don't know for sure, of course, how I'd feel until something like that happened.

Second, I have a problem with removing her feeding tube. Isn't that starving somebody to death? Isn't that kind of a cruel way to do it?

I'm just throwing stuff out here...I have no answers to any of this.

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The CBS Evening news just had some doctors on discussing Terri Schiavo's condition. One compared a normal brain scan with hers. Most of the cognitive portion of her brain is dead. The brain stem, which controls autonomic systems like breathing, blinking, etc. still functions perfectly. However, one of the doctors said that she is not conscious, that the brain stem will "mimic" conscious responses to stimuli. As far as the removal of the feeding tube being cruel, the part of her brain that no longer functions is also the area that senses pain, according to the newsclip, so she would not feel the pangs of hunger nor thirst. Finally, another doctor said that it would be cruel to replace the feeding tube, cruel to continue to use her as a political tool.

Captain Zap

Joe:

Florida courts have ruled time and time again on the husband vs. parents issue, and have concluded that Terry Schiavo's wishes were to not be kept alive in this circumstance. Her husband, by law, must carry out her wishes. Also, numerous doctors have examined her and concluded that she is in a persistent vegetative state, and is absolutely and irreversibly not aware of her surroundings. The images you see on tv were "chosen" to make it appear that she is responsive in some ways, but the reactions are simply random responses. I believe her father made some inane remark this evening along the lines of "let's go tell Terry about the court decision." Tragically, her parents are in extreme denial. The shame of this case lies in using it as a political football by grandstanders like Tom Delay who want to get the spotlight off themselves.

I am so furious at Republicans and assholes like Tom Delay for trying to score political points off the suffering of this poor woman. Like they know better than the team of doctors she's had over these years. This case has been reviewed-thoroughly. But these days, when the praise Jesus crowd doesn't like something, they get results.

Culture of life? Pro-life? These are the same obscene people who cut health care benefits to thousands of poor people, nursing home patients, disabled children, just so they can dole out more tax cuts. They cause death via their health care cuts, their love of executions, and their salivation at the thought of military options.

The right wing is not the culture of life. They're the culture of greed and opportunism.
Guys like Delay are pure slime.

So angry I could just spit. Can ya tell?

i have a lot of concerns about the federal government getting involved in family life....it's a Pandora's box, way over the line and true or not, sure looks like Republican opportunism....

....so in no way do i support what has happened....in terms of the government...

...but as a former nurse, i gotta say.....no matter what the docs say....*nobody* *nobody* ain't *nobody* really knows what
Terry or any person, even in a coma know, feel or experience.....

you're hearing educated guesses.....
at best....

...and dehydration and starvation are hellish ways to die.....

..i'm not against taking away artificial means of life support.....but i think we're relying too heavily on folks with all kinds of agendas to decide what is and what isn't artificial and what is or what isn't life........again without awareness of what this could mean in our own lives.....or those of our loved ones....

Thanks, Zap & Mikey, for clearing up some stuff for me. I agreed with ya'll in general, but it just seemed to me that in this case folks were treating this like a simple matter, which it's not.

And of course, I've said all along that Congress & Bush should stay outta this & concentrate on what they do best, which is......uhhhhhhhh..........
uhhhhhh......uhhhhhhh...

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm........

Uuuuuhhhhhhhhh....

Gimme some time, I'll think of something...