while on holiday, i read this book, by David Livingstone Smith. on the cover it says "this is the most important post 9/11 analysis of war". The take home is that we have evolved as a violent war mongering species. each of us, as individuals, has been selected to carry a deep seated penchant for war. what do you think of this theory?

I believe that a careful study of history reveals that many societies have developed a "mindset" over the last several thousand years that makes war a more viable course of action when they are confronted with problems that need solving, or interests which they feel need promoting. But no, I do not believe that we have somehow become genetically programmed with a propensity for waging violent and aggressive conflicts. We have choices. The general mindset which leads nations and societies to go to war is kind of like an addiction, or a bad habit, which tends to limit and block out other, healthier choices that we have at our disposal. Pete Seeger said that he believes we can develop a "mindset of peace" through the practicing of peaceful behaviors, and only that can lead us to break our bad habits. And as individuals, we ALWAYS have a choice, and can transform negative behaviors into positive ones if we want to badly enough. As an addiction counselor I see people do this everyday..........

And BTW, welome to Blunderland Heraclitis!!!

What Kevin said.

What Len said.

What Pete said.

...and yet i still want to say

too much of the time people talk about peace love and understanding but they don't mean it...it is all too often self serving...hence cheapening the real thing (i don't know how many times i tried to say that here, but did so poorly i am afraid)

"the villain twirling his mustache is easily recognized...the one who is cloaked in good deeds is well camouflaged"...jean luc picard (paraphrased probably)

see i did every once in awhile watch star trek

some of the scruffiest people can be some of the best ones in my experience?

Agnes wrote:

"the villain twirling his mustache is easily recognized...the one who is cloaked in good deeds is well camouflaged"...jean luc picard


Bob Dylan wrote (and sang): "Sometimes Satan......Comes as a man of peace."

Well, even if you think it's instinctive, there's always this:

"[War] is instinctive. But the instinct can be fought. We're human beings with the blood of a million savage years on our hands! But we can stop it. We can admit that we're killers...but we're not going to kill...today. That's all it takes! Knowing that we're not going to kill...today!"
-- Captain Kirk in 'A Taste Of Armageddon'

part of his argument is the ongoing practice of genocide and war without a break over the past centuries. it seems to be easy to say we are going to practice peace than it is to actually stop practicing war. that is a paraphrase i suppose, but it is the "teaser trailer" of the book.

Heraclitis wrote:

" it seems to be easy to say we are going to practice peace than it is to actually stop practicing war."


I don't think anyone is saying that this will be easy......the major changes we make in our lives are almost always very difficult and usually scary......but then the benefits can be enormous!!!

I don't know if it is instinctive. From the point of view of archaeology and anthropology there is a clear, repeatable and possibly unstoppable process by which humans organize themselves when a population in an area reaches some density: elites emerge. This pattern can be shown again and again. The elites take control of resource distribution, discovery and the spending of any surplus. This gives rise to other classes most specifically the artisan class. Through that power the elites can influence or directly control expression.

Because that organizational pattern is based on resource consumption (evolution is, for example, a very resource consumptive process), cultural growth is influenced by and influences the consumption, the need to sustain, replenish and discover new resources is very compelling. The majority of wars are for loot (say resources) and the cultures that emerge at that time support that.

So whereas it may be too strong a statement to claim it's in the genes, it's right up front on the album cover. It's why analysts paid to predict social movements and their consequences for the goals of the elite are heavily involved in the study of pop culture (zeitgeist culture, really).

What Len said.

"... so I said to the shrink: 'Shrink, I wanna Kill'"

And interestingly enough, that was what he said to [i]avoid[/i] going to war

And as an expression it raised awareness comedically (a very effective way to direct change with the least pain) that helped get that done although one can make the case that shrinking resources (going broke, heavier resistance to the draft, no profit growth) convinced the decision makers.

On the other hand, the violence curve for killing was rising steadily and went vertical in the 20th century until the invention of the atomic bomb at which point it falls dramatically. So I argue against the instinct to go to war but we never take it off the option list. Given a sufficient threat to resources and the power of elites, we take it off the table in bigForm even if smallForm continues. IOW, no world wars but little local ones. And yes, that is improvement.

The challenge is sustaining awareness. As soon as the draft ended, the marches began to and as soon as the war was declared won despite the forces massed to the North that did overrun the South, we put the folk singers back on the road, took away their record contracts and went right back to boogie fever and the shining city on the hill. The elites retook any control they had and amplified it many times. Once our fears of anilhilation were damped, our des[erate desire to be a member of the elites regained strength and our atavisms reasserted themselves.

Once again, our culture was applied to manipulate the zeitgeist and we bit hard on the bait. A fox has no illusions about becoming a horseman at the fox hunt. Why do we? Because we think it possible and as long as we can think that, we believe we are free.

Sometimes I wonder if we have the first clue what real freedom is and if we knew, would we want it?