First of all Star, should we all go to bed without dinner now?

And please, don't speak so broadly...now I know I was the one who quoted Zowie, but I've already spoken to that. But please, tell me who here purported to speak for Arlo? Because I really haven't seen any of the people you seem to be scolding here pretend in any way they thought they were speaking for him. I HAVE seen that - frequently, I might add - as a retort to anything that a person decides he or she doesn't like but is unwilling or unable to debate on their own. You know, doing the "I don't like that, but if I just say I don't like it, someone will say 'so what?,' so instead I'll say that Arlo wouldn't like it. If I invoke the name of the great and mighty Arlo, that'll fix 'em." So please, feel free to tell us who you think is doing this - give them the chance to defend themselves.

Oh, but I forgot. You can't respond to this. After all, you are stomping off and taking your toys and going home as you leave the shaky remains of Arlonet ready to crumble into ruins behind you.

<Yawn> Been there, done that, was too damn bored to write the book.

Wow, you people really f**ked up my thread! Do you believe this shit!
Dave, I love you like a brother, but if you close the community boards, I'm coming to your house to beat you up!

a great fundraising idea just came to me...remember those braclets that say WWJS (what would Jesus say)...well why not WWAT (what would arlo think)!

just a thought...

Kim, I spoke, not for Arlo, but against Dave's post, that, whether in jest or not, went against the grain of tolerance for diverse opinions and beliefs that is a part of Arlo's "message"
Like Star, i saw nothing in Zowie's posts to warrant the scolding he received here
If someone chooses to stay, or leave, on this forum, that's their choice. Daring, or baiting of people, as Fitzy did, is to me, shallow and wrong.
Pat, I know you to be a thoughtful open-minded person. My assumption is that you got got in a "coven, group-think" that took you where you wouldn't have gone, on your own
I'm not going anywhere, & will continue to express, and hopefully dicuss my opinions and feelings, with others here.
I will also stand up for the right of my friends, to do the same!
Dave, if you keep divisive, enflamatory posts off this forum, including your own, everything will be fine.

Joe Bloggs had I known you quoted me, I'd of replied sooner. And no, I'm not a believer of 'they' deserve it. (being home-less). Not a Jerry Falwell fan, who believes Gays and Lesbians are to blame. In fact, some of my best friends are Gay! Not that that matters, because I love them for who they are, not because they are, or are not homo-sexuals!

*I've met home-less people that tell me they'd rather be that way, than to hold down a job. I've met home-less people that sell food-stamps, to either buy a bottle of Port (or cocaine $ Smack). I've met allot of Veterans that fall into the cracks. I usually give them money. My friends tell me I'm nuts. I don't care if they turn their life around....(altho, I'm happy when they do).... I'm too busy worried bout my own self. NOT!!!

***Homelessnes in USA (along with world hunger) is epidemic. Rb didn't in anyway try to down-size the problem. If it sounded that way, I apologize.

* Joe, don't put words in my mouth. Second guessing, isn't your strong-suit!!!

i didn't see anyone get a scolding here. zowie was barely involved in the discussion that kim, nathen and i were having about the taliban, women in afghanistan, etc. he did quote something i said to nathen, and turned it around in a way that suggested that the us was just as bad as iraq. i admit to replying in a sarcastic tone because, frankly, i thought that was a sarcastic post. i didn't believe he really thought things were as bad here as iraq. maybe i was wrong there...maybe he does. then, joe mentioned china and russia..and kim responded to him (not zowie) saying she'd rather live here than russia or china. zowie came back and posted this:

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>
Fuck this crap. I haven't heard that Russia one since, uh, there WAS a Russia.

And, Nathen, what's this thing about "WE don't take out entire groups." You want me to US-bash by
mentioning the Indians, so you or the neobushoids can call me a whole lot of nasty names, but I won't play.
Mess with someone else's head. Of course, the borg are going to call me nasty names anway. I can spell scapegoat, strawman, and bait-taker.

If everyone around here is gonna think from their crotch and not argue the FACTS, well, then I will too.

FUCK SUNSHINE LEFTISTS.
FUCK BORG.
STOP TRYING TO ASSIMILATE ME.
IT'S FUTILE.
I'M YOUR WORST FUCKING NIGHTMARE.

-Z <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

now...i'm not sure where all that came from. until this point, no one had called anyone a nasty name, and we were dealing with any number of facts. any name calling was started by zowie in this post. nor had anyone felt the need to resort to "fuck this crap".

AFTER that post, people did ask zowie what the hell was that about, and felt he was "going off" when no one could quite understand why. you know...more than once, i've seen zowie say that he's had problems on other sites...that people attack him, call him names, etc...that he just doesn't "fit". maybe he should think about why that is...or why he "sees" it that way.

personally, i've never had a problem with zowie except when he gets into a political discussion. it seems that when he does, he takes any post that disagrees with him as a personal attack. frankly, that's his problem and i'm not going to make it mine, no matter how many times you try to tell us we should.

btw..would you consider the above post by zowie inflamatory?

only edited to fix a typo.

<center><FONT COLOR="#000080">--- Edited 3 times, lastly by deb on Oct 25, 2001 ---</FONT></center>

<FONT size="6">"Shane, Come back Shane!" </FONT s>
Sorry I couldn't resist that!

*I can't imagine leaving the site, because other people don't share your views. If that were the case, I wouldn't have lasted a day here. I do have moral committments, that is a mainstay of my thinking. Altho, I'd be a fool, not to ponder other people's ideas. When I'm wrong, I like to admitt it. Ya gotta be wrong a bunch of times before you get it right, in todays 'not so perfect' society. Chemical imbalance doesn't help.

*Todd's a good example of tolerance. Don't laugh to hard Goodman. It's true!

Bumper, what group think? Deb and I do agree on most political stuff - guilty as charged there. We seem to very consistently hold a very similar world view and we both either enjoy or can't help discussing it, however you look at it. If we both express our views on the same thread, is that double teaming and somehow wrong? Kim comes from a different point of view but sometimes worlds collide - no, actually she's moderate on a lot of issues and sometimes we do find ourselves in agreement. Kim also is interested in the world and what goes on it it and so she feels free to post. Are those the people you're talking about? Others have expressed themselves here, too, and they might be in agreement with on some points, but not others. Is that part of the group think dynamic in the cases when they agreed with someone else who didn't agree with ZoWie? Fitzy's explained over and over that she wasn't daring anyone to leave, but rather expressing impatience with dramatic departure announcments.

I honestly don't get what you're saying about the scolding that ZoWie got. Really. I'm quizzled as hell about it. It seemed to me that periodically he'd start scolding, complete with name-calling, italics, bold text and a laundry list of things we weren't supposed to say. I haven't read through every post on every thread in question, but I don't recall him getting that kind of treatement from others. Nathen encountered a lot of disagreement, too, but I didn't see him getting all bent out of shape.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Bumper:

Dave, if you keep divisive, enflamatory posts off this forum, including your own, everything will be fine.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

So, that would mean I would have had to at least have deleted one of your posts already, cool....

Me (the root of all evil)

c'mon dave... hopefully only kim knows if your root is evil!

Well, once again I put something out there that was general, this time asking who it was that was speaking up for Arlo. Why is it when you put out a general question that doesn't necessarily apply to anyone, someone always steps right up and volunteers?

Bumper, these community boards don't necessarily have ANYTHING to do with Arlo's message. That's what the "official" forums are for. Dave speaks for Dave. I speak for me. Star speaks for.... ummmm.....Bumper speaks for....oh..... well, maybe that example doesn't always work.

If we're going to start questioning whether or not something fits into "Arlo's message" (and why we would do that anyway is way beyond me.....I have my own brain and don't really need Arlo or anyone else to give me a message before I can decide what my opinion is,) maybe we want to figure out how page after interminable page of flinging fruit figures into that message. Or how discussing an appendage of someone's body fits into that message. Maybe we should figure out how discussions about baseball, football hockey, or whatever fit in. Fitzy's right....maybe we all need WWAT bracelets to help remind us how to judge what we should or shouldn't post.

Or maybe we should all just get over it already! Can you believe this shit?

Here is a scarry thought for some of you I am sure... this is almost a direct Arlo quote:

"There are basically 2 kinds of people in the world, those who give a shit, and those who don't. More often than not I find myself with someone who gives a shit, rather than someone who agrees with a thought for a passing time."

Ok, I know that's not word for word, but I think it's pretty much got the jist of it. Think about that one long and hard... especially those of you who have this idea about "hearing Arlo's message".

I hear ya, rbrown. We're cool.

does anyone know how to answer a direct question?

everyone loves to make sweeping generalizations and reinterpret posts to their own 'satisfaction' (or is it dissatisfaction?) and NO ONE seems to be able to answer a direct and personal question.

bumper, i know i asked you to please explain your post...but you havent. star, i believe folks have asked (and if they havent, i am now) asking exactly where you see fitzy 'DARING' zowie to leave?

honestly, i cant believe this shit. (that was for you, larry!)

how the hell is agreeing (on a political matter, no less) coven group mind think? how many possibiites are there with any political statement?

a) i agree, strongly
b) i agree, somewhat
c) i disagree, somewhat
d) i disagree strongly

the 'words' in the posts are only supporting evidence to a,b,c or d.....so basically, if there are more than 4 people replying to any given political statement some of you seem to think it is 'ganging up'. when there are only 4 choices....the 5th person becomes the 'gang mentality'...kind of amusing if you ask me (but then, nobody did).

as has been pointed out, we have seen the 'giant ego' at arlonet before. we have heard from people leaving arlonet that it will die without them and that we (and let me make this perfectly clear so there are no 'maybes' about it...that deb and i, along with pat who's mind we obviously control because she is far too nice a person to have thought of any of this on her own [and that is supposed to be a compliment?] and more recently, fitzy are the 'problem' with arlonet and if only dave would keep us in line (with the occassional outburst from his wife...and of course...from him) all would be right with the world.

does that about sum it up?

I give a shit, Dave, not about a passing thoughts, they blow in the wind, but how people are treated, especially by people in positions of relative authrority. Now granted, a web site forum isn't exactly brain surgery, but people come here, to share their opinions & ideas, cuz that's what we humans do
so, please do keep the community forums open....
Sherry, I'm being as specific as I choose to be
Kim, of course there isn't an "arlo way of thinking" here, but something must've attracted you & Dave to him, I'm curious what that is...
I think Zowie's post there, was creative , witty, what's the problem with that?
I read Fitzy's post & don't care to expend the energy now, to copy it, here, Fitzy knows what she posted, ask her....

<center><FONT COLOR="#000080">--- Edited 1 times, lastly by Bumper on Oct 23, 2001 ---</FONT></center>