I still say they are ugly.

Hehehe...

It seemed a civil discussion to me?

And invigorating. So far this has been fun, H. I'm waiting for the defense of cognitive science.

Now I said flat out back on July 26 or so that "I have long been an opponent of Social Darwinism" so, any support of Cognitive Behavior or Evolutionary Psychology at this point is done with some skepticism.

As an aside, what about the possibility of a homosexual gene? What is your opinion on that bit of controversial Cognitive Behavior?

just real quick...



aww goofus...i wish we could be out on a porch or somewhere and see a possum, then you could see how cute they are, even if only through my eyes.

okay carry on!

I think there is evidence for it based on rough but stable numbers of around 11% of the population as far back as we have numbers and that some of my gay friends tell me they never considered any alternatives; so it's hard to label that one as 'cognitive' in the sense of volitional. There will be some crossover of people who choose that sexual combination but otherwise, it seems to be expressed at a stable frequency so there is some indication that it is genetic. Much confusion here culturally though and historically, a pattern where it becomes culturally or socially acceptable in a larger population for bursts of time and then is ruthlessly suppressed for much longer periods but it never disappears and given the social pressures against it, surprisingly persistent.

Again, the institutional supports for it are transient. After the election of Obama, it seems the gay community believed they would get support from the black community. They got a rude awakening in California and if they had bothered to watch the black church TV cable programs they would have known the facts about that.

You people think too much. I'm just sayin'.......

You know it seems to me that just changing a few words you have made a case for war genes

I think there is evidence for it based on rough but stable numbers of around 30 to 50%% of the population (supporting war) as far back as we have numbers and that some of my militant friends tell me they never considered any alternatives; so it's hard to label that one as 'cognitive' in the sense of volitional. There will be some crossover of people who choose to go to war for personal reasons but otherwise, it seems to be expressed at a stable frequency so there is some indication that it is genetic. Much confusion here culturally though and historically, a pattern where it becomes culturally or socially acceptable in a larger population for bursts of time and then is emotionally suppressed for other periods but it never disappears and given the social pressures against it, surprisingly persistent.

and

Larry, what difference can it possibly matter if we waste are time thinking to0 much...I am just saying

Oh and words come in all sizes, don't discriminate!

I'm just the resident smartass(well, one of them). I'm guilty of thinking too much as well. But as the folkslinger has noted" I didn't know any more after thinking than before I'd begun"

The various bits to his community thesis are a good read.
When we are talking about the only species that has ever been on earth with the power to render itself extinct, it does get complicated....huh?

I'm with Captain Zap..Just say No!....

in some cases anyway, i think there are those who are generally peaceful...or at least want to be...but have learned that they best know how to defend themselves (just in case, as they have seen) ... i would hope (and think) that we would eventually get beyond this (toward less violence)

try to understand the root causes (including those who are among those who are generally peace wanting people) trying to sort through the corruptness and bullshit that brings us back a few steps ("one step forward, two steps back")

I, personally, feel that there are just too many factors to be able to pin it down. Cultural, chemical, societal, hormonal, genetic, familial, etc., etc., blah, blah, blah, etc. As a species, our likes and dislikes, bigotries and empathies can change in a flash or at a snail's pace. 9/11 showed that. When we stop thinking and let raw emotion take over we tend to make really bad judgement errors. That is still affecting not only America but the whole planet. The biggest problem is that we take the easy way out and don't use our f***ing brains. It's a lot easier to react and not think of the consequences, even if it means war, pain, death, suffering. Don't build a mosque near "Ground Zero"!!! But we think it's some god's will to build Christian churches in Islamic countries that our ancestors invaded and tried to convert with the sword. The Europeans even did it to their own; Pagans, Jews, whoever. Two hundred plus years of war! All for gods. Still continues. Bush said it was a holy war. Bush said god's on our side. The Al Qaeda said their's is on their side. The German's, in both World Wars had "Gott Mit Uns" (God With Us) on their belt buckles. "For god and country". And they all believe/believed it. We are one messed up species.

I once heard a guest on Bill Maher's old "Politically Incorrect" tv program say, "We live in a society where we will stand in front of a microwave oven and scream, 'HURRY UP!'" Me, me, me. It's all about the "me". Screw "you"! Instant gratification, what's in it for me?, I want it all. We do not think. We are bottomless pits of greed and want. We don't choose to say "no". We can but we don't. We won't. We don't think. We can. But we don't. And we won't. Pretty sad when you have the ability and don't choose to use it.

Have I gone off on a ranting tangent? Nah! I think it's more like dynamic Venn diagrams. It's all related or intersecting but ever in motion. Just my blah, blah, blah. Won't change anything.

Wow, lot of stuff:

1. I have always enjoyed reading S J Gould and have been familiar with punctuated evolution for some time. The Himalayan example just seems more variation. Evolution can be horizontal and vertical as well as non linear! Ritual blood letting also seems ubiquitous through out the human race as well. Don't forget, god said to Abraham, kill me your son!

2. I figure there are no adequate explanations for the polished stone because nobody cared enough to pay somebody sufficiently to come up with one. Besides, mystery sales better. None of the buried civilizations appear to be significantly more advanced than any other civilizations dating way back when. It proves that periods known as the "dark ages" are reproducible.

3. Those western intellectuals? They never had an open mind when it came to non western people!

Psychology has had its moments in accurately predicting what humans can and will do if put into controlled situations. So, I don't mind reading what these guys are thinking and discussing it (and so I started this thread).

Just my opinions on the variety of stuff there.

This rant here I believe would tend to agree with Dr. Smith. He would argue that the cultural, societal, obviously hormonal and genetic as well as the familial are all coded in our DNA. He does put together a pretty good discussion of altruism and its affects in terms of familial, societal and cultural. I think Dr. Smith would rephrase that last bit and say our brains are preprogrammed to respond instead of think when it comes to perceptions that lead to war. So I guess Larry is on board with this idea as well!

This is just my interpretation.