kj...i agree too about the sensing thing even though the logic and words haven't always caught up at the same time...i have said as much before, "something beyond the words and phrases..." anyway, i know what you mean there...

i really should excuse myself from this discussion, because i really am having trouble gathering my thoughts (please refer to the last of the brooklyn cowboys, track 4 for more information)

before i came in here and read the article that louise posted about the bishop...i thought of how some people have used the bible (and still do) to qualify just about anything...and there in the article was a paragraph where the bishop said as much...
sometimes, it can be really handy though if you can find the words (and logic? information?) to explain why something "feels" wrong. (especially when somebody is standing there looking at you, waiting for something) :)
like i said, i should just excuse myself and walk away now...sorry!

The broad line between those that live lives closer to the one that Jesus did and the ones that often talk about Jesus sure could raise some eyebrows.

Hey Dave. Welcome back.

Arlo, breathtaking insight.

I was never red. I can't be blue any longer. Or even consider purple.

Paint me Chartreuse or slate gray or goldenrod.

My main problem with any Democrat is that they won't take it as a compliment and say thanks after being called a bleeding heart liberal.
Is that what the media-right storm (as I like to call THEM) has reduced to caring for We the People.
I guess Frank Zappa saw it all coming when he sang about the SLIME OZZING out of our TV set.
Those media-rights keep falling on this land where a Jury is suppose to decide guilt. And it is still illegal for Corperations- which do not have rights, to donate a dime to any Politician.

Amen brother. We're enjoying your quotes from the Bible on here...

In this Point in time, it looks like lots of this World is enslaved to serving the Multi-National Coperations. Or lots of US here in the States are enslaved to Banks. 300% on the price of a mortage. I would rather see THEM pay lots more of our taxes.

Well, I know Steve Miller thought there was a solution to the People in the Street, as he sang about in Fly Like an Eagle. Its a good thing Rock and Roll, which is the 7 peals of thunder kept secret in Revelation 10, have been teaching People how to Rock the Jail House since Elvis. We could change things in a heartbeat, if we all would get behind Rock and Roll.
I'll tell you all again and again Steve Miller found a New Way in Space Cowboy. The same old story about the good the bad and the wicked, and poor.

As gov't programs go, some work but most seem not to, at least in the way they were intended. And a lot are intended to fatten up the resumes of politicians and little else. There are programs that pay prospective employers half of a person's salary for retraining. Most employers won't even bother with it due to all of the red tape and paperwork that goes along with it.

There are retraining programs that are designed to get people off of welfare. But if you're not on welfare, forget it. Sort of promotes folks getting on welfare rather than helping them out before they need it, doesn't it?

A former State Rep here initiated a bill for health insurance for underprivileged children. She was wavin' that flag around during the last election. What she didn't tell you was that most doctors wouldn't accept it because it didn't pay them enough. But she (the Rep) was still saying, "Look what I've done for the poor children!"

There are some that work.... sometimes. My wife lost her job in a textile mill after 23 years. The jobs went to India. She qualified for retraining. After a year of her studying and our scrimping and dealing with creditors she got a job in a psych office as office manager. I do have to say though, that a lot of that had to do with being in the right place, at the right time and getting placed with the right people. There were plenty of people in her class who weren't as lucky.

Most state or federal programs are either inadequate or the staff insufficiently trained to run them (or just don't give a flying crap). No, I am not saying that there aren't people taking advantage of things like welfare, etc. There are! But tell me why it's so difficult to get legislation passed to help bring up the quality of life for people but so easy to sanction a senseless war? Why is it so hard to get a living wage for some people but so easy to get taxes dropped for the richest one per cent? Why do the same politicos who find it so hard to get a real health care bill written manage to get great health care for themselves, not to mention vote for their own wages and fat retirement packages?

The system has been broken for quite some time. In my mind becuase we have been way to big for our britches. Thom Hartmann on Air America from 12- 3 during during the week has a book out called Screwed-the undeclared war against the middle class. He says we need another tea party. I think we need about 50 tea partys. 50 independant states would be better off then what is called united states. But even those patriot indians wouldn't be sure of what to throw in the sea. I would like to start with the rent/mortgage.

Captain, you can pose the same questions to our politians over here. We still are a bit better up in Germany, but they (government) are working on things to get worse. Amazingly it functions quite well in the scandinavian states Denmark, Sweden, Norway, Finland. Lets send our next new elected leaders for a first inaugural visit over there.

Don't send Bush! He'd screw up things there, too!

I can only quote John Edwards tonight, "Unions are the best anti-poverty system we have."
In my life time, I hope the Mondragon Cooperative of the Basque in Northern Spain turns out to be even better. True Worker Ownership.

There is this "what would Jesus do" motto, movement, or whatever popular with Christian folks as a way to focus your conscience, etc...only problem is most people (especailly those in power of some type...."W" especially don't have a clue). Mark 10:25 "It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter the Kingdom of God".

I agree Larry...I don't hate anybody for real, not even W. ...I only imagined that if my son had died in Iraq then I might experience what hate really was, as I imagined parents across the land are now feeling. ...As far as "w" and other ignorant leaders, I feel sort of compassion for them becuase they, or some of them at least don't really realize what they are doing...they actually believe the stuff they are thinking. It's almost or is delusional on some level....although as one man's delusion becomes excepted as truth by others, and the numbers grow it becomes a majority thought....and could become accepted as "reality" by the general population....that's "consensus reality" as compared to "scientific reality", like gravity..which Sir Issac Guthrie attempted to disprove in the "fork slinger incident".