HI, Tom...

I'm one of those who is just back from Okemah... if you can get there next year, do it!

I'd been thinking about the question of why we don't have the young people mobilizing or becoming active... and I believe it is because for the most part, they don't feel personally threatened. The draft is not an issue to them (at this time) since we have an "all volunteer" military (though they don't see the 'back-door' draft engendered by the stop-loss program).

I think that the administration is canny enough to know that if the draft is reinstituted, there is likely to be an uprising of protest such as we had in the sixties and seventies. Our young people are being recruited (by sometimes devious means) rather than drafted.

I would also like to see more young people out at peace rallies and other protests. The movement is growing, but it is nowhere as widespread as I'd like to see it.

I have peace bumper stickers on my car (what... you're not surprised?), and when I moved from New York, I had my first real 'angry' reaction to those stickers. I had a moment of consideration, thinking that I should take the stickers off... but no... I directed a thought to the angry man ... "Peace, Brother" and left the stickers on. (I'm in Colorado Springs now... a VERY military, VERY red town). I think I am needed here to counterbalance that influence.

I think they feel threatend, I think the shadow of Osama Bin Laden and 911 are a greater influence now than the threat of Vietnamese Communism. The threat of communism as an influence had run its course by the mid sixties i think, the paranoia of our own government was greater than the communist threat, i was just a kid but that was how i felt.

that is what i think

i don't like Osama Bin Laden and I don't like Pat Robertson and i don't like the hezbolah the taliban or the radical jewish movement (or nazi's for that matter), but that doesn't mean i think this war is going to improve the situation, but 911 scared the hell out of us (it did me anyway) and it demonstrated how goofy and dangerous people with god on their side can be

With all due respect, I was not personally threatened then--as a woman, they weren't going to send me--but I was out there in the 60s and early 70s. I wasn't a child, I wasn't seeing it on the news--I was on the streets in Texas marching against the war. Friends disappeared into the 'justice' system. It was a lot scarier then than it is now to stand up for what you believed in, at least in the South. I see no less of a movement now, but everyone believes FauxNews when they report that it's less now, so it's virtually less.

So, NSA, did you get all of that?

Again, Tom, you're not 'lookin' in all the right places.' The one I keep 'harping' about in Okemah for the last five days was the ninth anniversary of a free concert that thousands attend each year in Oklahoma. You did not/will not see it in the news. It was much bigger than anything that could have happened in the middle of the country in the 1960s.

That's a fair response Ceashel, tell me about the concert.

Wyldflower- thanks for the response, I think you have a point. It seems to me that in today's world, it is whatever you can do to squeeze another nickel out... Move jobs overseas, can people, cut out healthcare, or whatever... Anyway the point is, it is ever person for themselves. You see it on the roads, I think Zap kind of touched on it in a earlier response. Pretty tough to have peace in that kind of envioroment.

Kurt- I guess I was thinking of the protests as a response. Thanks for another point of view I did not consider.

PSBeaty- I know you have some specific examples of labels and parallism- lay 'em on me.

Tom, you have to do more work than this for a paper (at least, we did in the 60s). Here's the last you'll get here, from me, on that:

http://www.woodyguthrie.com

Good luck! I mean it!

Ceashel,
I am not sure I can use this forum as a source? Just for the record, I have returned to school, I was born in the sixties too. Just looking for some different perspectives.

I was in Okemah in 1972 -73, it sounds like you have a huge documented change in that little corner of the world largely because of (Hmm) ?? ??? (hmmm), I don't know what happened???

Hi Tom,

I always enjoyed seeing paterns in the veneer of wood doors. I know there isn't a picture but that doesn't stop me from seeing one. Seems like history and the grain in wood doors has something in common.

I was trying to read about meditation and some Buddist teachings seemed to get slipped in. I think I read that Buddism has the idea that everything all exists at once, only you see the part that fits the stage you are in at the time.

kurt...

Shelly, I think there may be regional differences as to how people are reacting these days, just as there were back in the day. But around here in Connecticut, you don't see a lot of young folks organizing or showing at vigils and such. In fact, you don't see a lot of people (period) doing much of anything visible.

You may have heard about our Democratic candidates for US Senate. Ned Lamont, a newcomer, is running against incumbent & Bush's War supporter Joe Lieberman (also Al Gore's VP running mate) in next month's Democratic primary. Lieberman is saying that Lamont is running only against his stance on the war. Well, I think that's enough, personally. And it appears that a lot of people in Connecticut feel the same. I see plenty of Lamont signs on people's lawns, but I can't recall seeing one for Lieberman. I hope this momentum carries on through to the elections in November.

My point here is that there may be a silent revolution going on here as far as folks getting sick of the dirty politics & politicians we have who live in their own little universe and are more representative of their own welfare rather than that of their constituents. That's at least something, but I don't really see a lot of anybody making their voice heard around here. And, yeah.... it has a lot to do with the media choosing what they want us to hear, see, read.

I think you might be right, Ceashel. Every Saturday morning there is a protest outside the Post Office in my town. Every time the casualty list reaches a new "milestone," there's a silent candlelight vigil. The vigils have gotten some coverage, the protests have not. Each time there's a vigil, the crowd seems bigger. People are starting to recognize the lies they were told. Let's see if the midterm elections bring any changes.

I still think that there is a fear of an evil lurking that needs to be dealt with and organizing a rebellion against the war requires a common realization among "the masses, young and old" that ending this approach is safer in the long run than continuing down this path. I think the problem is that too many people think the war (as mismanaged and unthoughht out as it is) is more effective at combating terrorism than no war at all. The truth in my opinion is that the war is not only not effective in ending terrorism but it is detrimental, seriously detrimental to the cause. If this opinion catches on there will be more people willing to attend vigils and the like, I think!

I mean, by the late 60's i don't think anybody truly believed that the "fall" of South Vietnam to the commies was going to effect the American way of life one iota. The hawks as it were were more concerned with the dishonor of losing the war than they were with any real concern of any people living in the Great Red Society in Vietnam.

If you mean last Friday night's gig, it went pretty well and I had a good time. Folks stuck around all night and I got paid (always a good thing!), and I got $23 and more weird stuff in my tip jar (a feather, a car wash token and a Toucan Sam spoon straw. Even played an Arlo tune (Don't worry, the ASCAP dues were paid!). Sorry for the off topic stuff.

And now, back to our regular program:

The thing that really gets me these days is that Bush & company are blatant liars and either nobody acknowledges it or they just ignore it. Anyone in that administration with a conscience has bailed or gotten tossed out. Nobody's getting upset about it. La, la, la...life goes on!

During VietNam, the media was right in the middle of the war. You saw what was going on to some extent. The media today has everything all nice and tidy. Remember the big stink the administration put up over the photos of the flag draped coffins on board military aircraft on their way back home? Oops! Don't want to see any more of those, do we? There's also a seriously high amount of ADD with the media, too. They'll report something really heavy for a day or two and then it's either put on a back page or dropped entirely, even though there's been no resolution to it. Even Iraq isn't front page anymore!

It's not any one thing that's causing this whole freakin' mess that the world seems to be being sucked into. It's a lot of crap and a lot of factions not wanting to or caring to do anything about it. It's all "What's in it for me?" these days. With everything from the press, politicians, the public, big business, "etc., etc., etc." to quote Yul Brenner. Woe be to those who oppose them! Yeah, some things are turning around, but it's so freakin' slow in happening. In the meantime, more people are dying, more countries are going to war and Bush and his com padres are all dancin' a jig!

I think that about says it all. Too many people just don't give a flying **** about anyone but themselves. BushCo has played into that perfectly. It's up to us "rebels" to make noise about it. None of us can save the world alone, but if we join together, there's a chance. There is strength in numbers. Pardon the ranting cliches.
Since this is Arlo's board, I'd like to cite him. When I saw him in concert, he talked about taking a trainful of stuff to New Orleans. He talked about how there are a lot of problems in the world that need fixing, and some people are overwhealmed by the magnitude of it all. Arlo said simply, "You can do what you can do." If each one of us does what he or she can do, many of the world's problems can be solved. I'm trying to do my part, how about everyone else?