ArloNet • Is it possible for one person to earn a billion dollars..

Jafo · **Posted:** Thu Feb 16, 2012 8:36 am

heraclitis wrote:

The following was posted by Heraclitis on Feb 13

Well, as Milton said, their descendants (because they were gone when Hoover came around) kept the fire burning. They did not act (as Milton would have) because they said the Market needed a good cleaning (and don't forget, they could not loosen the amount of available cash because the law required that they could not devalue the dollar below 40% of the gold standard (as a Ron Paul Supporter another thing you would be proud of)).

Still playing the village idiot I see?

Below is from the Milton Friedman Wiki entry:

Friedman was the main proponent of the monetarist school of economics. He maintained that there is a close and stable association between price inflation and the money supply, mainly that price inflation should be regulated with monetary deflation and price deflation with monetary inflation. He famously quipped that price deflation can be fought by "dropping money out of a helicopter."[33]
Friedman's arguments were designed to counter popular claims that price inflation at the time was the result of increases in the price of oil, or increases in wages: as he wrote,
Inflation is always and everywhere a monetary phenomenon.
—Milton Friedman, 1963.[34]
Friedman rejected the use of fiscal policy as a tool of demand management; and he held that the government's role in the guidance of the economy should be restricted severely. Friedman wrote extensively on the Great Depression, which he termed the Great Contraction, arguing that it had been caused by an ordinary financial shock whose duration and seriousness were greatly increased by the subsequent contraction of the money supply caused by the misguided policies of the directors of the Federal Reserve.
The Fed was largely responsible for converting what might have been a garden-variety recession, although perhaps a fairly severe one, into a major catastrophe. Instead of using its powers to offset the depression, it presided over a decline in the quantity of money by one-third from 1929 to 1933 ... Far from the depression being a failure of the free-enterprise system, it was a tragic failure of government.
—Milton Friedman, Two Lucky People, 233

So Milton was a socialist?

More Socialist Milton Friedman below:

Friedman was the main proponent of the monetarist school of economics. He maintained that there is a close and stable association between price inflation and the money supply, mainly that price inflation should be regulated with monetary deflation and price deflation with monetary inflation. He famously quipped that price deflation can be fought by "dropping money out of a helicopter.

(Note: should be regulated ... I know your village idiot phenomenon so a put the special bit in bold)

Geez, you really like leaving stuff out don't you? Thats another part of shithead socialism we all have come to expect from you. Here is the part of the Wikipedia entry you just conveniently happened to miss:

Quote:

Though opposed to the existence of the Federal Reserve, Friedman argued that, given that it does exist, a steady, small expansion of the money supply was the only wise policy

But if you all of a sudden have seen the light, then I am sure you will also agree with what the Wiki says further down the page:

Quote:

The Fed was largely responsible for converting what might have been a garden-variety recession, although perhaps a fairly severe one, into a major catastrophe. Instead of using its powers to offset the depression, it presided over a decline in the quantity of money by one-third from 1929 to 1933 ... Far from the depression being a failure of the free-enterprise system, it was a tragic failure of government. —Milton Friedman

Thank you for finally agreeing with me.

Jafo · **Posted:** Thu Feb 16, 2012 8:38 am

leoburg wrote:

Calling the Capitalistically Privately owned Federal Reserve Socialist, is surely a mix up in definitions of terms.

Just where did you get the idea that the Fed is privately owned? Can you please explain this in terms broadly defined in society instead of ones made up in your head.

heraclitis · **Joined:** Jul 17, 2010 **Posts:** 1375

Jafo wrote:

heraclitis wrote:

The following was posted by Heraclitis on Feb 13

Well, as Milton said, their descendants (because they were gone when Hoover came around) kept the fire burning. They did not act (as Milton would have) because they said the Market needed a good cleaning (and don't forget, they could not loosen the amount of available cash because the law required that they could not devalue the dollar below 40% of the gold standard (as a Ron Paul Supporter another thing you would be proud of)).

Still playing the village idiot I see?

Below is from the Milton Friedman Wiki entry:

Friedman was the main proponent of the monetarist school of economics. He maintained that there is a close and stable association between price inflation and the money supply, mainly that price inflation should be regulated with monetary deflation and price deflation with monetary inflation. He famously quipped that price deflation can be fought by "dropping money out of a helicopter."[33]
Friedman's arguments were designed to counter popular claims that price inflation at the time was the result of increases in the price of oil, or increases in wages: as he wrote,
Inflation is always and everywhere a monetary phenomenon.
—Milton Friedman, 1963.[34]
Friedman rejected the use of fiscal policy as a tool of demand management; and he held that the government's role in the guidance of the economy should be restricted severely. Friedman wrote extensively on the Great Depression, which he termed the Great Contraction, arguing that it had been caused by an ordinary financial shock whose duration and seriousness were greatly increased by the subsequent contraction of the money supply caused by the misguided policies of the directors of the Federal Reserve.
The Fed was largely responsible for converting what might have been a garden-variety recession, although perhaps a fairly severe one, into a major catastrophe. Instead of using its powers to offset the depression, it presided over a decline in the quantity of money by one-third from 1929 to 1933 ... Far from the depression being a failure of the free-enterprise system, it was a tragic failure of government.
—Milton Friedman, Two Lucky People, 233

So Milton was a socialist?

More Socialist Milton Friedman below:

Friedman was the main proponent of the monetarist school of economics. He maintained that there is a close and stable association between price inflation and the money supply, mainly that price inflation should be regulated with monetary deflation and price deflation with monetary inflation. He famously quipped that price deflation can be fought by "dropping money out of a helicopter.

(Note: should be regulated ... I know your village idiot phenomenon so a put the special bit in bold)

Geez, you really like leaving stuff out don't you? Thats another part of shithead socialism we all have come to expect from you. Here is the part of the Wikipedia entry you just conveniently happened to miss:

Quote:

Though opposed to the existence of the Federal Reserve, Friedman argued that, given that it does exist, a steady, small expansion of the money supply was the only wise policy

But if you all of a sudden have seen the light, then I am sure you will also agree with what the Wiki says further down the page:

Quote:

The Fed was largely responsible for converting what might have been a garden-variety recession, although perhaps a fairly severe one, into a major catastrophe. Instead of using its powers to offset the depression, it presided over a decline in the quantity of money by one-third from 1929 to 1933 ... Far from the depression being a failure of the free-enterprise system, it was a tragic failure of government. —Milton Friedman

Thank you for finally agreeing with me.

Proof Positive

Once the village idiot
Always the village idiot

I don't know what else you can say?

Lets try

1. JP Morgan stepped in 1893 and 1907 and stopped Panics by devaluating the dollar (as a Friedman would say...he through money out of a helicopter.
2. He didn't want to do it anymore so he organized some buddies including a Senator named Aldrich and the richest man in America John D Rockefeller (Aldrich's daughters father in law so both are the grandfather of Nelson Aldrich Rockefeller) to develop the Federal Reserve (this is actually the third bank of this nature in American history the first was organized by Al Hamilton and the second destroyed by Andy by-god Jackson, but we don't want too much history it will confuse Jafo).
3. It was not accepted by the progressives because they (mainly by the influence of non western banks in my opinion) did not support it because it would originally be independent of the government and they felt it would cater to the "New York Banks".
4. Everybody realized that JP Morgan was dying and concerned there was nobody who could handle these situations everybody agreed on a compromise. THE FED WOULD BE A GOVERNMENT AGENCY!

(note, points 3 and 4 would have been the grounds for any valid argument by Jafo...BUT HE DIDN"T POINT THEM OUT!).

5. This is the compromise to the Aldrich plan. It was an attempt to keep bankers out of the mechanism for regulating bankers (consistent with what Milton Friedman says in theory, the question Milton has expressed is how to make theory practice and not some ideological crusade as Jafo would suggest)

6. The Bank was created by Bankers to replace essentially JP Morgan (because basically, Morgan was dying and did not want to do it anymore!)

7. Well the controls failed and New York Bankers did take charge!

8. In the Panic of 1920 they acted in self interest instead of in the interest of the economy and kept money tight increasing unemployment (driving down wages) and eliminating competition (banks outside of their syndicate).

9 This was followed by 9 years of Laissez Faire (or as Jafo says the closet thing to free market capitalism we have ever seen) complete with questionable banking practices (extending credit where it should not have been) and questionable investments (investing on margins) and boom, the panic of 1929 (fueled by greed).

10. The bankers at the Fed did not act as they should (as Milton Friedman has said). They acted in their own self interst. They kept money tight (not as JP Morgan did and intended them to do in this thing called the Fed when he helped create it, well at least not to the extent they did as JP was not immune from capitalizing on Panics, he just knew when to back off). Sure enough unemployment went up (and wages went down...the problem was... wages disappeared) and banks failed (the problem it was not just competition banks but The New York Bank) and boom the Great Depression. That is why Milton does not like the Fed (can you blame him?).

This whole history is consistent with what Heraclitis posted as Jafo demonstrated irrefutably that he is "the village idiot"!

Jafo · **Posted:** Thu Feb 16, 2012 9:29 am

If you actually read your points, 8-9-10, it is amazing how you prove mine. I already said this a bunch of times in this thread and you always magically pass it over. For example:

viewtopic.php?f=12&t=14408&p=467535#p467535

Don't you get the point? Free Market Capitalism did not create the Fed! It is like giving a chimpanzee a machine gun and then saying nature is flawed for creating the chimp that killed everything around it. The machine gun is an artificial construct in the natural existence of chimpanzees. Just like when the progressives (or as we call them today, socialists) created the Fed (Wilson was a progressive), they introduced an artificial construct into capitalism.

You keep saying "Oh well Morgan and Aldrich came up with the idea blah blah blah" which is really not the point is it? Who put this in place? Progressives. What did it do? It allowed MEDDLING of the system. Ergo, it is SOCIALIST MEDDLING.

Got it shit for brains?

heraclitis · **Joined:** Jul 17, 2010 **Posts:** 1375

Jafo wrote:

If you actually read your points, 8-9-10, it is amazing how you prove mine. I already said this a bunch of times in this thread and you always magically pass it over. For example:

viewtopic.php?f=12&t=14408&p=467535#p467535

Don't you get the point? Free Market Capitalism did not create the Fed! It is like giving a chimpanzee a machine gun and then saying nature is flawed for creating the chimp that killed everything around it. The machine gun is an artificial construct in the natural existence of chimpanzees. Just like when the progressives (or as we call them today, socialists) created the Fed (Wilson was a progressive), they introduced an artificial construct into capitalism.

You keep saying "Oh well Morgan and Aldrich came up with the idea blah blah blah" which is really not the point is it? Who put this in place? Progressives. What did it do? It allowed MEDDLING of the system. Ergo, it is SOCIALIST MEDDLING.

Got it shit for brains?

If I recall, you didn't actually do anything back there but copy and past some words from Wiki (or osme other source) without discussing them followed by Heraclitis pointing out where those words actually reflected what he had already posted (in bold). Seems to me that is what I recall.

Anyway

Another lesson boys and girls:

If you sacrifice your objectivity in the name of ideology you will end up presenting yourself as THE VILLAGE IDIOT!

Jafo · **Posted:** Thu Feb 16, 2012 9:53 am

heraclitis wrote:

If I recall, you didn't actually do anything back there but copy and past some words from Wiki (or osme other source) without discussing them followed by Heraclitis pointing out where those words actually reflected what he had already posted (in bold). Seems to me that is what I recall.

Anyway

Another lesson boys and girls:

If you sacrifice your objectivity in the name of ideology you will end up presenting yourself as THE VILLAGE IDIOT!

As usual, the SHIT FOR BRAINS SOCIALIST doesn't remember correctly at all. It was entered as evidence that even the Fed agrees with me, not you. You can try and circle back but we all see you.. Nice try shit for brains.

And let us quote shit for brains directly:

heraclitis wrote:

OK

just to be complete

The great Depression.....Free Market Capitalism created clever ways to invest on credit overvaluing the investment assets

Ok, so don't try and play it off that I am all of a sudden agreeing with you. Idiot..

leoburg · **Posted:** Thu Feb 16, 2012 9:55 am

The Fed is owned by Privately owned Banks. JP Morgan turned out to be owned by the Rothchilds, which must be who talked him into setting up the whole deal. There are just way too many people to list, who have been saying for years its owned by private banks.

Clearly our definitions of some terms come from different places.

But over all its a combination of a number of things needed, of which socialism (Not Jafo's definition of Socialism.) is going to be a part of restoring this broken land. I'll bring up the condition of Detroit City, where I could buy a home for 6 grand (hope that explains something in few words.) but I don't like guns, but I know Jafo will blame that on the Unions. But he will also give all credit to capitalism for how great a City Detroit once was.

But unto another subject:

Brought to you by Billionaires for Wealthcare, a grassroots network of health insurance CEOs, HMO lobbyists, talk-show hosts, and others profiting off of our broken health care system. We'll do whatever it takes to ensure another decade where your pain is our gain. After all, when it comes to healthcare, if we ain't broke, why fix it? http://youtu.be/x1I9xsV-g9Y

Jafo · **Posted:** Thu Feb 16, 2012 9:58 am

leoburg wrote:

The Fed is owned by Privately owned Banks. JP Morgan turned out to be owned by the Rothchilds, which must be who talked him into setting up the whole deal. There are just way too many people to list, who have been saying for years its owned by private banks.

I guess you misunderstood what I wrote.. I am not asking you for your OPINION, but where you got this idea? Is there some source for your misinformation that the Fed is a private institution.. Indeed, Obama would be quite concerned that he was nominating people to a private firm..

leoburg · **Posted:** Thu Feb 16, 2012 5:10 pm

I'd take 1-5 money odds that both Paul and Kucinich have stated that the Fed is a privately owned bank. There are just too many other places that have stated it to bother with a mister know it all.

I'd Rather focus on North Dakota's State Bank as a way out of the Fed. Even von Mise knew there would be no easy way out, as Paul also knows, by him stating, ''He would not get out of the Fed over night.''

But I will dig up common knowledge links on the Privately owned Fed.

Jafo · **Posted:** Thu Feb 16, 2012 5:12 pm

leoburg wrote:

I'd take 1-5 money odds that both Paul and Kucinich have stated that the Fed is a privately owned bank. There are just too many other places that have stated it to bother with a mister know it all.

Why don't you ask Heraclitis if the Fed is privately owned..

leoburg wrote:

Rather focus on North Dakota's State Bank as a way out of the Fed. Even von Mise knew there would be no easy way out, as Paul also knows, by him stating, ''He would not get out of the Fed over night.''

But I will dig up common knowledge links on the Privately owned Fed.

Nobody cares about North Dakota's State Bank..

leoburg · **Posted:** Thu Feb 16, 2012 5:16 pm

There are 20 States studying how to do what North Dakota has been doing fine with for over 90 years. California put a bill on Governor Brown's desk to study it. Jerry just said, ''Give me a bill to make it reality.''-basically-from an arlonut

Jafo · **Posted:** Thu Feb 16, 2012 5:17 pm

leoburg wrote:

There are 20 States studying how to do what North Dakota has been doing fine with for over 90 years. California put a bill on Governor Brown's desk to study it. Jerry just said, ''Give me a bill to make it reality.''-basically-from an arlonut

Call me when it happens..

leoburg · **Posted:** Thu Feb 16, 2012 5:22 pm

Why in dogs name would I ever want to call you?

Are you a Koch Brother Tea Party type?

Jafo · **Posted:** Thu Feb 16, 2012 5:25 pm

leoburg wrote:

Why in dogs name would I ever want to call you?

Are you a Koch Brother Tea Party type?

Ahh the Koch brothers.. The latest boogieman of the left.. Got tired of Dick Cheney I guess?

leoburg · **Posted:** Thu Feb 16, 2012 5:38 pm

I am neither left or right so I can piss off both sold out sides that got US in this mess. Sure, had mainly voted left, but its been so long since they stood for anything, I forget why. While Raygun spoke of smaller Govt yet it grew.

I've felt this OWS broiling inside of every one I have met through out my whole life.

''As my poet friend David Chorlton said while we were listening to Cohen: "Now that's poetry." One more: I can't run no more with that lawless crowd while the killers in high places say their prayers out loud. But they've summoned, they've summoned up a thundercloud and they're going to hear from me. Ring the bells that still can ring Forget your perfect offering There is a crack in everything That's how the light gets in.'' - Anthem, L. Cohen

http://youtu.be/lBVaqrqb3bk

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