approaches can vary i suppose?...a lot of potential for good, and also not so good, generally speaking

I dunno.......if folks spent more time listening to God rather than speaking and acting for him/her, shit might not be so messed up.

Well, I guess you'll have to kill me...

oh, what i said up there was in response to this, which was in response to...it's back there somewhere

I have always quite frankly been floored by such a notion that there are those who feel authorized to speak up and or act out on behalf of the divine.

Especially the worn out vocabulary:

I was led to ( fill in the blank) .....
I felt God put it on my heart to .....

Who thinks this stuff up ??

What makes you assume they were thinking?

Sometimes answering a question with another question that may make you think, is a better answer than an answer.Ya know what I'm saying?

Precisely, Watson!

While there shouldn't be a need for late term abortions, thank goodness there are few doctors who will do them! My daughter had a problem pregnancy from the start but her "christian" doctor whose practice would not prescribe birth control of any kind, would not do any additional testing to find out what the problem was with the fetus. By the time my daughter got to a "normal" doctor and did a CRV (I think that was the test) and found the fetus has serious issues and the best case involved it living maybe a few months. Her "christian" doctor told her she should have the baby and they would not help her at all. By the time all of this happened and my daughter had a doctor who cared, her only options were a late term abortion or give birth to a dead baby or a baby that would never leave the hospital.

It was an awful decision to have to make...but it could have been avoided if she had had a more responsible doctor! They never even followed up with her after they dropped her from their practice.

Sorry, I had to share that.

Fitzy, thank you for sharing what must be painful to relive. Your daughter is not alone in having gone through a tragic pregnancy; not all non-viable fetuses result in spontaneous abortion before the second trimester:

http://www.womensenews.org/article.cfm/dyn/aid/2046/

It's just that now they have the technology to detect them in time. Our foremothers too often died or had the heartbreak of bearing a child that could not live.

Could you please give an example or explain more, as I'm not sure I understand this statement. Thanks.

I know; I can't read long posts, either.

This was not an isolated wacko; it's organized terrorism:

Murders

In the U.S., violence directed toward abortion providers has killed at least 10 people, including 6 doctors, 2 clinic employees, a security guard, and a clinic escort.

* March 10, 1993: Dr. David Gunn of Pensacola, Florida was fatally shot during a protest. He had been the subject of wanted-style posters distributed by Operation Rescue in the summer of the year before. Michael F. Griffin was found guilty of Dr. Gunn's murder and was sentenced to life in prison.
* June 29, 1994: Dr. John Britton and James Barrett, a clinic escort, were both shot to death outside of another facility in Pensacola. Rev. Paul Jennings Hill was charged with the killings, received a death sentence, and was executed September 3, 2003.
* December 30, 1994: Two receptionists, Shannon Lowney and Lee Ann Nichols, were killed in two clinic attacks in Brookline, Massachusetts. John Salvi, who prior to his arrest was distributing pamphlets from Human Life International, was arrested and confessed to the killings. He committed suicide in prison and guards found his body under his bed with a plastic garbage bag tied around his head. Salvi had also confessed to a non-lethal attack in Norfolk, Virginia days before the Brookline killings.
* January 29, 1998: Robert Sanderson, an off-duty police officer who worked as a security guard at an abortion clinic in Birmingham, Alabama, was killed when his workplace was bombed. Eric Robert Rudolph, who was also responsible for the 1996 Centennial Olympic Park bombing, was charged with the crime and received two life sentences as a result.
* October 23, 1998: Dr. Barnett Slepian was shot to death at his home in Amherst, New York. His was the last in a series of similar shootings against providers in Canada and northern New York state which were all likely committed by James Kopp. Kopp was convicted of Dr. Slepian's murder after finally being apprehended in France in 2001.
* May 31, 2009: Dr. George Tiller was shot and killed as he served as an usher at his church in Wichita, Kansas.

Another doctor, George Patterson, was shot and killed in Mobile, Alabama on August 21, 1993, but it is uncertain whether his death was the direct result of his profession or rather a robbery.

This week’s murder of Dr. Tiller.

Attempted murder, assault, and threats

According to statistics gathered by the National Abortion Federation (NAF), an organization of abortion providers, since 1977 in the United States and Canada, there have been 17 attempted murders, 383 death threats, 153 incidents of assault or battery, and 3 kidnappings committed against abortion providers. The attempted murders were:

* August 19, 1993: Dr. George Tiller was shot outside of an abortion facility in Wichita, Kansas. Shelley Shannon was charged with the crime and received an 31-year prison sentence.
* June 29, 1994: June Barret was shot in the same attack which claimed the lives of James Barrett, her husband, and Dr. John Britton.
* December 30, 1994: Five individuals were wounded in the same-day shootings which killed Shannon Lowney and Lee Ann Nichols.
* December 18, 1996: Dr. Calvin Jackson of New Orleans, Louisiana was stabbed 15 times, losing 4 pints of blood. Donald Cooper was charged with second-degree attempted murder and sentenced to 20 years.
* October 28, 1997: Dr. David Gandell of Rochester, New York was injured by flying glass when a shot was fired through the window of his home.
* January 29, 1998: Emily Lyons, a nurse, was severely injured in the bombing which also killed Robert Sanderson.

Anthrax threats

The first letters claiming to contain anthrax were mailed to U.S. clinics in October 1998, a few days after the Slepian shooting, and since then, there have been a total of 655 such bioterror threats made against abortion providers. None of the "anthrax" in these cases was real.

* November 2001: After the genuine 2001 anthrax attacks, Clayton Waagner mailed hoax letters containing a white powder to 554 clinics. Waagner was convicted of 51 charges relating to the anthrax scare on December 3, 2003.

Arson, bombing, and property crime

According to NAF, since 1977 in the United States and Canada, property crimes committed against abortion providers have included 41 bombings, 173 arsons, 91 attempted bombings or arsons, 619 bomb threats, 1630 incidents of trespassing, 1264 incidents of vandalism, and 100 attacks with butyric acid ("stink bombs"). The first clinic arson occurred in Oregon in March 1976 and the first bombing occurred in February 1978 in Ohio. More recent incidents have included:

* December 25, 1984: An abortion clinic and two physicians' offices in Pensacola, Florida were bombed in the early morning of Christmas Day by a quartet of young people (Matt Goldsby, Jimmy Simmons, Kathy Simmons, Kaye Wiggins) who later called the bombings "a gift to Jesus on his birthday."
* October 1999: Martin Uphoff set fire to a Planned Parenthood clinic in Sioux Falls, South Dakota, causing US$100 worth of damage. He was later sentenced to 60 months in prison.
* May 28, 2000: An arson at a clinic in Concord, New Hampshire on resulted in damage estimated at US$20,000. The case remains unsolved.
* September 30, 2000: A Catholic priest drove his car into the Northern Illinois Health Clinic after learning that the FDA had approved the drug RU-486. He pulled out an ax before being shot at by a security guard.
* June 11, 2001: An unsolved bombing at a clinic in Tacoma, Washington destroyed a wall, resulting in US$6000 in damages.
* July 4, 2005: A clinic Palm Beach, Florida was the target of an arson. The case remains open.
* December 12, 2005: Patricia Hughes and Jeremy Dunahoe threw a Molotov cocktail at a clinic in Shreveport, Louisiana. The device missed the building and no damage was caused. In August 2006, Hughes was sentenced to six years in prison, and Dunahoe to one year. Hughes claimed the bomb was a “memorial lamp” for an abortion she had had there.
* September 13, 2006 David McMenemy of Rochester Hills, Michigan crashed his car into the Edgerton Women's Care Center in Davenport, Iowa. He then doused the lobby in gasoline and then started a fire. McMenemy committed these acts in the belief that the center was performing abortions, however Edgerton is not an abortion clinc.
* April 25, 2007: A package left at a women's health clinic in Austin, Texas contained an explosive device capable of inflicting serious injury or death. A bomb squad detonated the device after evacuating the building. Paul Ross Evans (who had a criminal record for armed robbery and theft) was found guilty of the crime.
* May 9, 2007: An unidentified person deliberately set fire to a Planned Parenthood clinic in Virginia Beach, Virginia.
* December 6, 2007: Chad Altman and Sergio Baca were arrested for the arson of Dr. Curtis Boyd's clinic in Albuquerque. Altman’s girlfriend had scheduled an appointment for an abortion at the clinic.
* January 22, 2009 Matthew L. Derosia, 32, who was reported to have had a history of mental illness rammed a SUV into the front entrance of a Planned Parenthood clinic in St. Paul, Minnesota.

LITFL

"Uh, huh!"

Geez, I hate this so much. I am such a nonconfrontational person. In the past 2 weeks 2 of my kids have been sucker punched in the face and ended up with split lips My husband tried to tell them how to settle things by fighting fair when I just want them to be nice. and then last night a boy told my 7 year old, "when I grow up I'm gonna be an assassin and you're the first one I'm going to kill".

But anyway, Terrie, my point is that if the baby can be delivered alive when the mother's life is in jeopardy there's no reason to kill it.

I could tell you lots of true stories about irresponsible doctors...like the "pulmonary expert" in Milwaukee who told my mother in law at age 76 that she had asthma. He gave her a bunch of meds and inhalers. No x-rays, no CAT scan, no studies about why she was getting increasingly short of breath. She had pneumonia a couple of times, and this went on for some time. We finally encouraged her to get another opinion, and the diagnoses was lung cancer. Her pulmonary guy immediately wanted to do surgery, but we again suggested that following this guy's advice wasn't such a good idea. (he had the gall to pull an attitude with us for questioning his advice!!!) It turned out that her cancer was so advanced, surgery was the worst treatment she could have had. She was diagnosed in August 2005 and passed January 2006.