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PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2011 2:56 pm
  

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U.N. Envoy: U.S. Isn't Protecting Occupy Protesters' Rights


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/12/0 ... ostpopular


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 Post subject: Gee Wiz in DC...
PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2011 3:10 pm
  

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http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/12/0 ... 28132.html

https://twitter.com/#!/timcraigpost/sta ... 6473088000


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 Post subject: Re: Occupy America
PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2011 1:43 am
  

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Crosby & Nash at OWS ....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RYhQ-fzgUAQ

and

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aWK0JpRg ... re=related


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 Post subject: Re: Occupy America
PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2011 8:20 am
  

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DRR wrote:
Thanks for sharing Kevin, and so true.

In my occupy education thread you will find many public protests referenced. A big one is the Bonus Army Protest. check it out if you have not had a chance.

Lynn, I don't know the best way forward in the bigger picture.

I think we need to learn as much as we can about each pol we can choose from, to do the greatest good.


I think we have to pay attention to the pols we can show have acted against the best interests and rights of American citizens. With the example I gave, that is reasonably simple to do. Follow the link and then check his public statements with regards to OWS in context of his committee assignments.

A charge laid against the OWSers is non-specific protest, the inability to articulate either a complaint or a remedy. If we say we don't know a way forware in the 'bigger picture', that charge has legs because we are saying we don't have a clear picture to begin with. That charge is creating a perception that is being accepted by some and possibly a majority. A conversation that has no actionable outcomes is a kibitz.


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 Post subject: Re: Occupy America
PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2011 2:37 pm
  

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OWS is going to be what the people make it. I hope we can focus on things that will help all 7 Billion Humans, flying through space on Beautiful Mother Earth.

Since we need sound money, which we have never had, lets gt out of the Fed. The best way I've hard to do that, is to follow what North Dakota has been doing fine with for 90 years, with its State Bank. Other States are studying how to do it.

If we don't fix Healthcare, the price will double in 10 years, probably with less care. Vermont's and Montana's Single Payer could very well be worth other States checking out.

And need we mention that ending the wars is a must. Why the hell not close all over seas Military Bases, and put the Vets, and others to work rebuilding this Broken Promised Land?

But on other thing: Communities should study how to set up the Worker Ownership of the Mondragon Cooperative, of the Basque in Spain. There is an Evergreen Cooperative in Cleveland, and Richmond California, is putting people to work by starting smaller Cooperatives. Its a better way to work. Don't we all want that?

http://youtu.be/xq3BYw4xjxE

http://youtu.be/cmepYdfrQKM


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 Post subject: Re: Occupy America
PostPosted: Wed Dec 07, 2011 10:40 am
  

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good to see and hear from you zap, it has been a while.

thanks for the links, all.


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 Post subject: Re: Occupy America
PostPosted: Wed Dec 07, 2011 6:53 pm
  

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on the subject of history and cycles and stuff, i saw a little bit of a doco on tv (got the name though...harlan county usa)

anyway...here is a trailer, you might check the movie out if you can... sounded some familiar problems...or as drr might say, i think i have seen this movie before!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iCiVMngILEI


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 Post subject: Re: Occupy America
PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2011 9:42 pm
  

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mII9NZ8MMVM&feature=youtu.be

Freakin' brilliant.

We keep expecting the songsters to lead because well, that's what happened in our day. This is a new day and a new kind of artist is out there hunting dragons. In every generation, slayers are born, Buffy.


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 Post subject: Re: Occupy America
PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2011 2:03 pm
  

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interesting...but propaganda-y

my focus on the doco i posted (i still have not seen the whole thing, only the bit that i saw on tv, it seems worth watching) (and of course the movie trailer as a movie trailer) ...my focus was on the kinds of problems facing the miners...(in there somewhere is a "big picture")
i am still hoping we (humans) can manage ourselves away from the violence. the dehumanisation shit in general.


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 Post subject: Re: Occupy America
PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2011 9:21 pm
  

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So are Alice's Restaurant and This Land Is Your Land. Art with a message and propaganda are indistinguisable as media trying to make an argument.

It's Libertarian in origin, for sure. Another correspondent on a different blog is a bud of the guy that made it. They are deep Austrian economic school advocates. That correspondent made a video of Hayek and Keynes debating that made national news. The work that went into that animation is considerable. I admire those who will put that much effort into it even if I disagree. I'm half hearted about the Austrian school and not much of a Libertarian. The first has some insight into the feedback model which in terms of information theory is sound and even if I don't believe money is speech (kill citizens united fast!), I do recognize it as a token in an information system. I do understand the feedback effects. Libertarians usually have their hearts in the right place; they're just extreme.

What the Fed and the rest of the central banking system worldwide have managed is horrific. And we do have to fight them. I think this is the struggle of our time. If we don't get the money out of the political system, we will have lost in a single generation everything our fathers fought for and betrayed our children. We have to fight them.

Otherwise, we suck.


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 Post subject: Re: Occupy America
PostPosted: Sat Dec 10, 2011 12:59 am
  

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len wrote:
So are Alice's Restaurant and This Land Is Your Land. Art with a message and propaganda are indistinguisable as media trying to make an argument.


I disagree. Propaganda perpetuates a distortion of the truth. I fail to see that in either of the songs you cited.

Edited because I was too dumb to make the quote stuff work right.


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 Post subject: Re: Occupy America
PostPosted: Sun Dec 11, 2011 3:26 pm
  

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Goofus wrote:
len wrote:
So are Alice's Restaurant and This Land Is Your Land. Art with a message and propaganda are indistinguisable as media trying to make an argument.


I disagree. Propaganda perpetuates a distortion of the truth. I fail to see that in either of the songs you cited.

Edited because I was too dumb to make the quote stuff work right.


Actually, no it's not. That's a common misperception of the meaning of the word. From Merriam-Webster:

Quote:

1. a congregation of the Roman curia having jurisdiction over missionary territories and related institutions

2 the spreading of ideas, information, or rumor for the purpose of helping or injuring an institution, a cause, or a person

3 ideas, facts, or allegations spread deliberately to further one's cause or to damage an opposing cause; also: a public action having such an effect


Pick one but Alice's Restaurant and This Land are clearly items one or two. You have to pick a side to decide if the effects are hurt or help, but the category is definitive.


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 Post subject: Re: Occupy America
PostPosted: Sun Dec 11, 2011 4:03 pm
  

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it is all about the semantics again...well thanks for the lesson.

i think the video says some things that make sense but leaves a lot out, and so misrepresents, and with a whole lot of rhetoric, and if you are not knowledgeable about all the subject matter it requires A LOT of fact checking...how convenient!

classic.


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 Post subject: Re: Occupy America
PostPosted: Sun Dec 11, 2011 6:19 pm
  

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If you want to take on the Libertarians, have at, Agnes. :lol:

It is well made and that is my point. A new generation of artists are standing up using all the new technologies they have mastered, independent of the big companies that choked off protest forty years ago after sucking all the oxygen out of it by co-opting it although it's fair to say without Google/YouTube they wouldn't get far.

Anyone who wants to defend what the investment and banking communities have done to our economy has quite a task ahead. With the latest move to do away with habeas corpus, we may be looking at something not too dissimilar to what that video suggests. I hope not.

Meanwhile, one gal's propaganda is another gal's noble message. We spent most of a decade in web language and architectural groups trying to define a means to get around that but no one ever has. It comes down to who you trust, what will you accept as evidence and does a difference make a difference one can test. Last Friday a fellow in the next cube told us there is no proof America sent men to the Moon and without proof, he wouldn't believe it. The fellow next to him described the new movie about a 'secret' Apollo mission to the Moon. When it was explained that a Saturn V launch is hard to hide, he said it can be done.

At some point one looks back and says, whatever. Willful ignorance is a powerful force. Ask Nicole Simpson's family.


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 Post subject: Re: Occupy America
PostPosted: Sun Dec 11, 2011 7:14 pm
  

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way to change the subject!
i was criticizing and skeptical of the video contents (no real argument about that there i can see)
len wrote:
If you want to take on the Libertarians, have at, Agnes. :lol:

if the shit fits, wear it!

len wrote:
It is well made and that is my point.

i suppose i should be impressed with hitler's charisma for the sake of his charisma,,,i just can't be all that impressed or happy about it.

len wrote:
Anyone who wants to defend what the investment and banking communities have done to our economy has quite a task ahead..


spinny spinnerson? what?
as for corporations, banks, and politics...connect the dots from what i have said already at the beginning of the thread as to what i think

agnes wrote:
the more i read, the more i want to make sure i remember what it is about and not get lost, the reasons behind its happening. why it is.

something about the glass steagall act and the gramm leach bliley act
something about the "warren buffet" tax
something about what to do about the crazy high cost of health care...i still think some kind of single payer thing sounds good (here is one link i have posted before)
http://www.pnhp.org/facts/single-payer-faq

another thing just came to mind... about corporations and personhood i remember hearing about...i really don't understand quite what that means...but i am under the impression that i should! (meaning, i am under the impression it is a matter of concern) i think i remember ceashel (for one) mentioning corporations and personhood?.


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