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 Post subject: AGs Big Recovery
PostPosted: Thu Sep 08, 2011 4:27 pm
  

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The Folkslinger

Joined: Nov 23, 1999
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Location: Housatonic, MA
Since posting some of the first paragraph here and elsewhere, I've had some more great comments from folks who have made me want to focus and clear up what may be unclear in my original post. I've removed the personal notes, and rewritten the piece with further thoughts as follows:

My plan to fix the world is simple as far as the USA is concerned. I'd put forth a massive rebuilding of infrastructure like every road, every school, ultra high spread internet, energy delivery and more than can be listed here. And I'd rebuilt it all ONLY with products, tools and machinery Made In The USA. No importing steel, wood products, concrete or high tech stuff from over seas. You'll see factories going up faster than a multinational corporation can send money to an elected official. That'd be my Day One - Job One!

I am talking about a program, not a trade policy - A temporary effort to bring jobs back to people who still remember how to do them. I'm not talking about protectionism directed at any nation, but rather protecting us from our fellow Americans who've shipped out 80+% of our plants, factories and jobs.

I, for one, am a BIG supporter of more local everything. I deeply mistrust centralization in general, believing that local suppliers of goods, like produce, education, and machinery keeps a community healthy with people who know how to do things. Walmarts and huge megastores taking over for local butchers, bakers and candlestick makers isn't a smart model for sustained civilization. Just ask the old Soviets what happened when the centralized system gets interrupted anywhere along the chain. The whole thing goes down. Better to have local farmers grow and deliver goods to local communities. Same for banks, schools, and especially industry. So my comments are philosophical in that regard. That's not protectionism, that's prudent culture. Better to have a variety of corn growing, for example, so that if one strain develops a disease, they don't all fail... Like that.

I really don't think we have to do much to oppose the globalization/centralization craziness. It will fail on it's own. I support every effort around the world especially in 3rd world countries to end dependance on companies like Monsanto, Walmart and others who destroy local cultures for the sake of saving a penny on food, or a plastic toothbrush. I am willing to pay more for local food and craftsmanship. Not everyone can afford to do that, but on the other hand we as a global community can't afford not to do so.

The generation passing away has knowledge that will be lost if we don't begin to help local institutions not only preserve, but pass-on the knowledge of self-preservation. We buy our food from the local farmer, raw milk from the local dairy, and play instruments made by real craftsmen. No one can do everything to avoid mass marketed stuff, but we're trying. And I'm supporting government representatives (where they exist), who understand what's at stake - which generally means I'm an Independent politically. I have friends left, right and center who share my concerns. On this stuff, no one party has spoken up more than another. I remain a party of one.

But if one, just one person does it……


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 Post subject: Re: AGs Big Recovery
PostPosted: Thu Sep 08, 2011 10:24 pm
  

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Arlo Fanatic

Joined: Aug 25, 1999
Posts: 1089
Location: Ocala, FL, USA
You've got my vote. You could run as a Group W candidate somewhere.


mikey


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 Post subject: Re: AGs Big Recovery
PostPosted: Fri Sep 09, 2011 8:38 am
  

Arlo Fanatic

Joined: Sep 05, 1999
Posts: 1478
Location: Mystic, CT
Sounds good to me!


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 Post subject: Re: AGs Big Recovery
PostPosted: Fri Sep 09, 2011 10:35 am
  

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Arlo Fanatic

Joined: Jul 06, 2008
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Among the very first things we need to manufacture are hot-air ballons...........there is a huge surplus of American Made hot air coming out of Washington, and it will probably continue to increase through the next election cycle. :mrgreen:


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 Post subject: Re: AGs Big Recovery
PostPosted: Fri Sep 09, 2011 3:48 pm
  

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BlunderVirgin

Joined: Aug 01, 2011
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you are soooooo right. I was taken in by bill Clinton with his NAFTA speech. Nevermore will I be so stupid...AMERICA FIRST


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 Post subject: Re: AGs Big Recovery
PostPosted: Fri Sep 09, 2011 8:12 pm
  

Senior ArloNetizen

Joined: Jul 30, 2008
Posts: 374
Location: Washington, DC
Kevin -- I'm with you 100%.

Arlo -- I'm with you about 70-80%. The general principle sounds good and I know your heart is in the right place. One big concern I have: I prefer local everything, too, but like...what about chocolate? I mean, we certainly can manufacture it here, but the cocoa beans have to come from somewhere else, I think...I don't think they'd grow here, at least not easily, and now that I can actually get really good fair-trade chocolate I would feel badly about things if we wound up hurting the little cooperatives out in the world that grow the beans. Same thing goes for tea (and I'm not a coffee drinker but I imagine it's true there as well). So...and I realize there's an element of selfishness here, but I'm not sure I could support a candidate who made it impossible to get chocolate. It's just one of those things.

Also, on the whole rebuilding roads thing...that's OK, but only if we're talking complete streets (meaning they address the needs of walkers and bicyclists and transit users)...I'm tired of subsizing socialist drivers (http://www.theurbancountry.com/2011/08/ ... es-of.html). It didn't used to be this way and we need to get back to the times when walkers had the right of way everywhere (as was true up till roughly 1920-40 when things started to transition (see Peter Norton, Fighting Traffic (http://mitpress.mit.edu/catalog/item/de ... &tid=11471)).

That's my two cents.


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 Post subject: Re: AGs Big Recovery
PostPosted: Fri Sep 09, 2011 8:20 pm
  

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ArloNetizen

Joined: Mar 28, 2007
Posts: 53
Location: Canandaigua, NY
While I'm a registered Republican, I haven't been happy with either side of the table for quite some time now... It seems to me that the efforts on both sides put into posturing and bashing dwarfs their efforts spent on doing the actual jobs that they were elected and paid (forever) to do.

I don't have answers... And I realize that there will always be some sort of polarizing battle. But I love the ideas adg has brought to the table. It reminded me of a very successful local grocery chain (Wegmans) based here where I live. Wherever their store locations are, they strive to bring in produce from local resources. I'm not sure if that policy is isolated to produce... I'm also not sure that this is not an industry standard practice among all grocery chains... It just makes sense to me and is perfectly in line with the ideas that adg has presented to us.

Keep the ideas coming Arlo.


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 Post subject: Re: AGs Big Recovery
PostPosted: Fri Sep 09, 2011 8:28 pm
  

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ArloNetizen

Joined: Mar 28, 2007
Posts: 53
Location: Canandaigua, NY
Eileen wrote:
Kevin -- I'm with you 100%.

Arlo -- I'm with you about 70-80%. The general principle sounds good and I know your heart is in the right place. One big concern I have: I prefer local everything, too, but like...what about chocolate? I mean, we certainly can manufacture it here, but the cocoa beans have to come from somewhere else, I think...I don't think they'd grow here, at least not easily, and now that I can actually get really good fair-trade chocolate I would feel badly about things if we wound up hurting the little cooperatives out in the world that grow the beans. Same thing goes for tea (and I'm not a coffee drinker but I imagine it's true there as well). So...and I realize there's an element of selfishness here, but I'm not sure I could support a candidate who made it impossible to get chocolate. It's just one of those things.

Also, on the whole rebuilding roads thing...that's OK, but only if we're talking complete streets (meaning they address the needs of walkers and bicyclists and transit users)...I'm tired of subsizing socialist drivers (http://www.theurbancountry.com/2011/08/ ... es-of.html). It didn't used to be this way and we need to get back to the times when walkers had the right of way everywhere (as was true up till roughly 1920-40 when things started to transition (see Peter Norton, Fighting Traffic (http://mitpress.mit.edu/catalog/item/de ... &tid=11471)).

That's my two cents.

Eileen... It seems to me that exceptions and hypotheticals kill good ideas. We can't ignore the overall good of an idea because of the lesser interests that are not served. Besides... I don't believe absolute mandates were suggested.


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 Post subject: Re: AGs Big Recovery
PostPosted: Fri Sep 09, 2011 11:09 pm
  

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Senior ArloNetizen

Joined: Jun 08, 2009
Posts: 185
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Location: Kent ohio
nortonkevin wrote:
Among the very first things we need to manufacture are hot-air ballons...........there is a huge surplus of American Made hot air coming out of Washington, and it will probably continue to increase through the next election cycle. :mrgreen:



:lol: thanks for the laugh..
G..i agree ..so far you have not been wrong on much..
here's a shout out for home grown..home brew & home spun!! :P


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 Post subject: Re: AGs Big Recovery
PostPosted: Fri Sep 09, 2011 11:20 pm
  

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Arlo Fanatic

Joined: Jul 06, 2008
Posts: 2531
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Location: Crawfordville, Florida
draz54 wrote:
Eileen wrote:
Kevin -- I'm with you 100%.
One big concern I have: I prefer local everything, too, but like...what about chocolate? I mean, we certainly can manufacture it here, but the cocoa beans have to come from somewhere else, I think...I don't think they'd grow here, at least not easily, and now that I can actually get really good fair-trade chocolate I would feel badly about things if we wound up hurting the little cooperatives out in the world that grow the beans. Same thing goes for tea (and I'm not a coffee drinker but I imagine it's true there as well).

Eileen... It seems to me that exceptions and hypotheticals kill good ideas. We can't ignore the overall good of an idea because of the lesser interests that are not served. Besides... I don't believe absolute mandates were suggested.


I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one who feels this way: they start messin' with my chocolate and my coffee there's gonna be trouble!!!


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 Post subject: Re: AGs Big Recovery
PostPosted: Sat Sep 10, 2011 12:04 am
  

Senior ArloNetizen

Joined: Jul 30, 2008
Posts: 374
Location: Washington, DC
draz -- I'm not criticizing, just attempting to flesh out the ideas a bit more. I don't for a moment think Arlo's an isolationist of some kind (how could he be, given he probably spends more time on the road than at home, and goes all over...). If I was gonna criticize, I'd say something like, "Yeah, right. Like the American people are going to be willing to pay the actual costs of employing their fellow citizens and paying them a livable wage." I will admit I am a bit pessimistic on that count -- we've been coddled too long, paying too little for the benefits we get, while others pay a higher price.

But still the good ideas need to be out there because what is currently out there is even worse.


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 Post subject: Re: AGs Big Recovery
PostPosted: Sat Sep 10, 2011 12:45 am
  

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Arlo Fanatic

Joined: Jul 06, 2008
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Location: Crawfordville, Florida
"Too much and too long, we seem to have surrendered community excellence and community values in the mere accumulation of material things. Our gross national product … if we should judge America by that – counts air pollution and cigarette advertising, and ambulances to clear our highways of carnage. It counts special locks for our doors and the jails for those who break them. It counts the destruction of our redwoods and the loss of our natural wonder in chaotic sprawl. It counts napalm and the cost of a nuclear warhead, and armored cars for police who fight riots in our streets. It counts Whitman’s rifle and Speck’s knife, and the television programs which glorify violence in order to sell toys to our children."

"Yet the gross national product does not allow for the health of our children, the quality of their education, or the joy of their play. It does not include the beauty of our poetry or the strength of our marriages; the intelligence of our public debate or the integrity of our public officials. It measures neither our wit nor our courage; neither our wisdom nor our learning; neither our compassion nor our devotion to our country; it measures everything, in short, except that which makes life worthwhile. And it tells us everything about America except why we are proud that we are Americans." ~ Bobby Kennedy


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 Post subject: Re: AGs Big Recovery
PostPosted: Sat Sep 10, 2011 8:47 am
  

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Senior ArloNetizen

Joined: Jun 08, 2009
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Location: Kent ohio
nortonkevin wrote:
"Too much and too long, we seem to have surrendered community excellence and community values in the mere accumulation of material things. Our gross national product … if we should judge America by that – counts air pollution and cigarette advertising, and ambulances to clear our highways of carnage. It counts special locks for our doors and the jails for those who break them. It counts the destruction of our redwoods and the loss of our natural wonder in chaotic sprawl. It counts napalm and the cost of a nuclear warhead, and armored cars for police who fight riots in our streets. It counts Whitman’s rifle and Speck’s knife, and the television programs which glorify violence in order to sell toys to our children."

"Yet the gross national product does not allow for the health of our children, the quality of their education, or the joy of their play. It does not include the beauty of our poetry or the strength of our marriages; the intelligence of our public debate or the integrity of our public officials. It measures neither our wit nor our courage; neither our wisdom nor our learning; neither our compassion nor our devotion to our country; it measures everything, in short, except that which makes life worthwhile. And it tells us everything about America except why we are proud that we are Americans." ~ Bobby Kennedy



wow, thank you Kevin. that was a great thing to wake up too. <3


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 Post subject: Re: AGs Big Recovery
PostPosted: Sat Sep 10, 2011 10:43 am
  

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ArloNetizen

Joined: Mar 28, 2007
Posts: 53
Location: Canandaigua, NY
Eileen wrote:
draz -- I'm not criticizing, just attempting to flesh out the ideas a bit more. I don't for a moment think Arlo's an isolationist of some kind (how could he be, given he probably spends more time on the road than at home, and goes all over...). If I was gonna criticize, I'd say something like, "Yeah, right. Like the American people are going to be willing to pay the actual costs of employing their fellow citizens and paying them a livable wage." I will admit I am a bit pessimistic on that count -- we've been coddled too long, paying too little for the benefits we get, while others pay a higher price.

But still the good ideas need to be out there because what is currently out there is even worse.

I'm sorry Eileen... I hope I wasn't being too critical... I just happen to work in an invironment that demands progress before all details have been ironed out.


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 Post subject: Re: AGs Big Recovery
PostPosted: Sat Sep 10, 2011 12:32 pm
  

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Arlo Fanatic

Joined: Sep 12, 2000
Posts: 6520
Location: New Jersey
Bravo! And, when Warren Buffet says "Tax me at a higher rate than my secretary", listen to him.


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