i have supposed that probably the native americans as well, even before the europeans arrived, had their own struggles and conflicts from time to time. not to say that the europeans arriving did not have a profoundly disruptive (not to understate) effect on the lives of the native peoples after they arrived. (and i didn't read your comment as saying that either). basically i think what you are saying is valid, heraclitis.

still, to acknowledge that - (that all peoples have probably had struggles and conflicts) is not the same as saying, that humans are not capable of becoming less and less violent. still, meanwhile there are people being beheaded and burned alive, by those coming across as having a pure thirst for what they are doing.

it is more like all people have had fears, greed and paranoia...

as for the comment

they are capable of less violence

I have not witnessed that in my life?

Tell me, what tribe or race or nation has not practiced some form of genocidal intolerance at some point during the existence of civilized man? Including the indigenous peoples of America. I am unfamiliar with those people!

The point of this question is really just to point out that what happened in America in 19th Century America was part of a grand tradition in human endeavor!


I know it is always a popular fad to bash America and Americanism whatever that is? I mean we have a whole political party/philosophy in America that thinks that whole "We the people" form of government is a bad idea. We call it the TEA PARTY. If you have been around awhile you know there are always some good reasons to bash what the "government/enemy" is doing but I see know reason to bash America and Americanism in general. I realize that rhetoric like:

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."

was designed to inspire revolution against one power base in order to create a new power base. Even Tommy Jefferson continued to own human beings after the disagreement on where American power and wealth should reside.

However, that libertarian rhetoric is part of the American heritage now. Even though the power base is no longer an aristocracy destined to power by the hand of god there are those that maintain the traditions that power should reside in the hands of the wealthy.

of course the next line:

"That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed,"

is just as meaningful today as it ever was.

The amazing thing to me is that the "power elite" (for as we all know power and wealth no longer recognizes borders..it seems real capitalism is the only thing that is considered acceptable to go "internationalist") has filled the minds of a huge portion of the "American Bourgeois" with the notion that a government by "WE THE PEOPLE" is no longer a good idea. THat in fact, the suggestion that we should plan and budget "for the common good" is a bad idea (of course the military and agriculture industries are exempt from this notion and the common good still applies).

So now you got "WE THE PEOPLE" running around yelling the next line in that document "-That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness." in the cause of destroying the government by "WE THE PEOPLE".

Meanwhile, back in Oklahoma (where I come from) there are more people of primarily European descent than ever trying to get listed on the "Tribal Roll" (I am 1/8 Kickapoo I swear..we didn't talk about great granny before but we do now) because the "Indians" are now wealthy from the vices of those White People and they make a lot of money off casino's and as tribe they believe in the common good. So you can get money from them if you make Roll you see...pay for a little you know college or somethin". Meanwhile, as good Okies we will bash the government for caring for the common good.

It all makes perfect sense!

Funny, those Texans kicked all them damn Indians out of Texas a long time ago. Now the north side of that red river is just one continuous casino and them Texans cant wait to get to Oklahoma to lose their wagers!

meanwhile, you just to learn how to boogie
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T9diDKg3aos

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WOP0Lj1DQG0

spread the news around