that is an interesting question.  it is already further away than it was.  but it was always just around the corner, a literal apocalypse.  

now, these days, i do not subscribe to any religion.  and yes, that process did take a long time. however, it would be nice if we humans wouldn't end up destroying ourselves.  
if only we could figure out how to live together on this planet in the healthiest possible way?
humans do have issues, but i think it is sensible to look at them (human issues), without getting caught up in religious dogma and superstitious thinking.

Agnes, your viewpoint is interesting and perhaps, lord behold, we have trodden similar stoney paths. Thanks for sharing something sound without strings attached. You are right in yourself to walk without crutches but that takes more than learning. The truth is out there they say…

referring to part in bold:  i do not understand your meaning.  what is it you are saying?

pass the biscuits, please?

LOL , what's for dinner ?

Well, only a little.

That was Sunday. I made BBQ tri tip, mac and cheese, and home made creamed corn! Man I love food...Help, I have a serious food addiction.

referring to part in bold:  i do not understand your meaning.  what is it you are saying?[/quote]

"now, these days, i do not subscribe to any religion. and yes, that process did take a long time. however, it would be nice if we humans wouldn't end up destroying ourselves.
if only we could figure out how to live together on this planet in the healthiest possible way?
humans do have issues, but i think it is sensible to look at them (human issues), without getting caught up in religious dogma and superstitious thinking."

As I read what you wrote, your words appeared to 'me', to be not just those of a mere 'Free-thinker' but more of a thinking free, 'Free Thinker'. Most, if not all of us, are born into our parents/tribe's fears, superstitions, dogmas be they political or religious or none etc. We are then expected to stick with same and even if we become 'a la carte' that's okay so long we hang on to our traditional crutches in case of emergencies and special occasions. That's when the oul crutches come in handy. Being an 'orthodox' catholic or protestant within those tradions doesn't necessarily mean you are a follower of Christ but rather of the subscribed 'natural' tradition. 'Born-Again Christians' coming from both sides and belonging to 'independent fellowships' proclaim that if you are Not 'Born-Again' you're not a true Christian and as such are 'unsaved'. No religion has ownership over loving your neighbour as yourself or loving 'God' whatever and whoever your particular god is, was or will be. I cannot think of any church, religion or tradition which doesn't hold its notion of 'GOD' in its own image? I cannot think of any who do not fall short and miss the mark (sin!). All are human and thus all imperfect so we take 'GOD' (the perfect) and imperfection is born-again. It doesn't really matter to religion and tradition if 'GOD' is real, dead or alive so long as the believers somewhat believe in 'their god' being the 'Alpha and Omega'. ('The truth is out there they say…')
Knowledge, even wisdom in itself will not make us free from such. Only when we consciously throw off the shackles of such mere stuff that we are born into, learned and perhaps one time subscribed too and stand up, without such passing crutches that cause us to stumble, that is perhaps the blind seeing, the lame walking and the slave set free to love her or his neighbour and nature in a perhaps better way. I am not throwing out the baby with the bathwater but rather taking the baby out from the dirty bathwater in the hope of a brave new humanity.

If 'God' is truly 'Love' then what is 'Love' truly?

I probably still didn't explain myself Agnes……but in a nutshell, from stranger to stranger, you appear to know yourself enough to dance without those a/m crutches most of us humans cling too thus our hatreds, wars and indifference to our 'neighbours' prosper to the promising extinction of all.

Peace and love time

:[/quote]



....what does any of this have to do with dinner ?

....what does any of this have to do with dinner ?[/quote]

Dining in the Dump on Diversity stew

thanks for taking the time to respond. i have a little trouble with some of the wording (i appreciate the time and effort it takes though in expressing a head full of thoughts sometimes), but there are things you said, i seem to appreciate. i think i would like to digest it all for a bit.

anyhow, i think i have a clearer picture of what you were talking about, thanks

I think what he is saying, and please correct me if I'm wrong...

For most of us coming up in a religious family with whatever form of indoctrination, at some point our brain may reason away God's existence, however we keep Him as a fall back option. (69's crutch term) I've heard the axiom, "there are no atheists in a fox hole." And it applies properly to me.

as far as that goes, and i have said this before….i don't really know what "god" is, i don't know what it means, other than what people go around saying it means. and then there is the whole, whose or which god is true or not, who's got the secret code, or whatever. and then the whole, this here notion is validated because it is backed by GOD! whether it is homophobic, misogynistic, racist, or not! says so in this book, or at least hints at it, (it happens!)! it looks to me that "god" as we know him/her/it was born of human ideas, and has suspiciously human qualities. so what is it you are trying to convince me of? that humans have a wild imagination? nothing wrong with a healthy imagination, but let's not get too carried away with our own self importance, backed by GOD!

humans have enough trouble understanding each other sometimes, without complicating things further with lack of understanding/ and or agreement about supernatural creatures!

just what is important?!

Yes. And I've found the further away from "God's" existence I journey, the closer I connect with and experience spirituality, and, as Arlo said, "Whatever I can discovery beyond myself."

A Spirituality of Imperfection.

That Agnes, is perhaps the most important question! I admit I'm not smart enough to be an atheist. Hopefully, not dumb enough to really believe that any god/s I could possibly imagine, was, is, or will be 'GOD" in my dust! (whatever bloody name "." happens to be) But, in such ignorance I leave myself open to such spiritually that shall overcome me when I 'kick the bucket'. I have my reasons for this 'foxhole' of 'spiritual' belief that i know to be reasonable but personally anecdotal. But you have asked Agnes "just what is important?!" Well, it certainly isn't my one time 'out of the body experience'!

I suppose each of us humans know what's important to self (to 'love' and be 'loved') and perhaps even those 'loved ones' around us. And thus, our wee world goes ticking on bye the bye until our cuckoo's last cry.

Tollerating and trying to understand and communicating with another in a non-threatening fashion is perhaps important. (trying their footwear on before we try to slip our underwear over their heads would probably work better ).
Perhaps just what is important Agnes is making the strange 'big human picture' a living, working member of that wee insular world we call 'me,me & me'? Lord forbid, I'm certainly not saying we should treat each other as 'human beings' given the rooster-led Abel & Cain approach we the self-appointed most enlightened species on the planet have evolved to become. Let me suggest that if human strangers in this Dump could agree to disagree on (their own) matters of importance and agree to say allow our humanity to grow from an agreed 'base line' say from the 'bottom' upwards, outwards, inwards and crossways? Who knows it may just even begin a movement of Peace & Love - how original!

In conclusion Agnes. In asking 'just what is important' perhaps you are opening a can of worms (I know, some people eat worms….!) but you have laid down a wee gauntlet and it remains to be seen if such a question is worth a fig or even a custard-pie or even mere 'communion'?

You made think some more than I probably would have imagined - thank you

Peace & Love to any ET's among us, if not in us, if not of us!

no need to be patronizing

later...