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PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2012 6:33 am
  

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leoburg wrote:
Got a feeling Heraclitis will understand what this brief history of America, in this video is all about. It just came my way today in a facebook group.

http://youtu.be/N2Xh5eN2fXY

.


While I don't disagree with many of the outputs expressed in this video, I don't necessarily agree with all the inputs. I don't agree with the conspiracy theory giving root to the evil American Empire. I believe in the nature of the human and find him quite predictable when confronted with wealth and power. I did like the one line where capitalism somehow became synonymous with democracy because that is the basic question or dilemma when it comes to Jafo's line:

"Never in the history of the world has human kind come so far in such a short period of time. A great deal of that sir, was directly from the economic powerhouse created by a capitalistic America."

Of course you can dispute the observation of come so far (it seems to me we have been wasteful and inefficient in our collective evolution as a species) but my problem is this line has become the religious mantra for those who proclaim themselves Righteous Americans. Those people have blended capitalism and democracy into rhetorical euphoria that, as faith will do, has rendered the crowd blind to reality! Yes, dare I say, it has left a good many delusional in their world perspective. It is unfair that these two concepts, capitalism and democracy, that their individualism and independence have been usurped by those that do not believe in the purity nor practice the wisdom inherent in either concept. As presented in your video, the American Myth has become a matter of religious faith and with that; America has lost much of the idealism, objective nature and practical wisdom of its people that, in my opinion, was the true hope, industry and dreams of those who proclaimed themselves Americans in 1800 and who proclaim themselves Americans in 2012.

I believe that this idealism and objective nature is no more defined by borders or nationalities today than it was 212 years ago!

I think I will gesticulate on this for a bit!


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 Post subject: More Recent History?
PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2012 12:12 pm
  

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That was horrible, and hard to watch. Greed has gotten the upper hand.

What About More Recent History?

Here is an interesting video, that lays out exactly what these corporations/so called people(s) want @ ~ the 3:00 mark, so skip to there.

Their own propaganda explains it exactly in just 30 short seconds.

http://vimeo.com/29342563

So it goes like this...

"we need the legislature to help us level the playing field through...

1) tax relief (For who I ask?)

2) streamlined environmental regulations (Not worried about cleaning up later?)

3) business friendly labor laws" (Oooh, I don't like the sound of that one.)

This ca legislator and the chambers of commerece use all this as their greed/creed.

May have made a good campaign ad.

Oops, Greed Blinks...

6 mo later rumors and accusations about embezzelement, a forensic atty combing files behind closed blinds for the last couple weeks.

Nothing public on this yet. Hmm.

If they are just keeping it quiet to protect jobs, great.

But what just happened?


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2012 2:06 pm
  

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Mother Earth is going to stop the machine. All we can do is jump out of her path.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2012 2:54 pm
  

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Oh it must have been a lot of fun...for Capitalism to conquer a Continent. It worked fine after WW2, when the rest of the World was in shambles.

It doesn't matter one way or the other, whether I agree with that whole video I posted above. But on reading who signed The Constitution, that almost half, wanted a stronger central Govt, so ''they'' could get paid back their debt for the Revolution...sometimes I wonder if many of them should not have run into Arron Burr. I am sure that if Tom Paine and Samuel Adams were men of violence...what ever...

All kinds of nature will battle back.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2012 6:19 am
  

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leoburg wrote:
Oh it must have been a lot of fun...for Capitalism to conquer a Continent. It worked fine after WW2, when the rest of the World was in shambles.

It doesn't matter one way or the other, whether I agree with that whole video I posted above. But on reading who signed The Constitution, that almost half, wanted a stronger central Govt, so ''they'' could get paid back their debt for the Revolution...sometimes I wonder if many of them should not have run into Arron Burr. I am sure that if Tom Paine and Samuel Adams were men of violence...what ever...

All kinds of nature will battle back.


See, this is the point. I don't agree with any of this. Capitalism nor Democracy conquered a continent.

I do admit that those involved in the formation of the American Government acted in self interest (I mean I would) but that does not mean I don't admire them. We did not have a Robespierre nor it seems the heavy hand of a Revolutionary council. Most of these people were "wealthy" in colonial terms but they were actually upper middle class by "English" standards. The more vocal of the bunch had liberal educations and were "children of the enlightenment". They had just separated from the "establishment" of the day or the English Mercantile Interest.

Gouverneur Morris, one of the more aristocratic of the bunch said, "Wealth tends to corrupt the mind and to nourish its love of power, and to stimulate it to oppression. History proves this to be the spirit of the opulent."

James Madison was even more original in his prophecy, "In future times, a great majority of the people will not only be without landed but any other sort of property. These will either combine, under the influence of their common situation-in which case the rights of property and the public liberty will not be secure in their hands-or, what is more probable, they will become the tools of opulence and ambition, in which case there will be equal danger on either side."

With that bit 0'prophesy....James Madison kicked Nostradamus' ass!

Proof Madison's Prophecy came TRUE!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J_9J5cJwkLU

I Love Alexandra!


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2012 9:00 am
  

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heraclitis wrote:
James Madison was even more original in his prophecy, "In future times, a great majority of the people will not only be without landed but any other sort of property. These will either combine, under the influence of their common situation-in which case the rights of property and the public liberty will not be secure in their hands-or, what is more probable, they will become the tools of opulence and ambition, in which case there will be equal danger on either side."

With that bit 0'prophesy....James Madison kicked Nostradamus' ass!


Wow, James really hit the bulls-eye with that one!!!


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2012 9:08 am
  

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Madison may have done a fine job of predicting what society would become, but he did a piss poor job of calculating where Mother Nature would take that prediction out behind the wood shed.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2012 12:03 pm
  

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Don't think we meant to imply, it was right for capitalism and Democracy to conquer the Continent, but basically, they did.

Think it was a founder called Monroe, who had doubted the wisdom of breaking up the Articles of Confederation, as did also Patrick Henry, and am sure Tom Paine was no fan of. One of them said something of this sort, ''Why would the people ever put up with being doubled taxed, and doubly harassed?''

Thinking about the whole history, and what we now have, just adding a Bill of Rights to The Articles, ''could'' have worked out better.

Now we have what Don Henley sang about in this end of the innocence video.

http://youtu.be/NLONgF8a_Ig

Not that far off track from The Eagles ''Last Resort'' song.

http://youtu.be/NLONgF8a_Ig


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2012 12:49 pm
  

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Unfortunately this old machine I use for the net doesn't do "youtube" very well. The constitution is slowly being eroded by judges with different agendas. What does it matter? CBS News last week was discussing the expectation of serious flooding of all coastal areas within 20 years. Where will that leave those anti-constutional judges then?

Reminds me of Bill Cosby...

Noah?!!!

Yes, Lord?

How long can you tread water?




It's all going to change and very soon. We have broken the records for temps here the last week. It's in the 80's when the average is normally in the 50's. No winter. No spring. It's summer.

The one's eroding the constitution won't listen. Eventually they'll be crying in their beer, only the beer will be warm...


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2012 4:41 pm
  

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DrCharbonneau wrote:
Unfortunately this old machine I use for the net doesn't do "youtube" very well. The constitution is slowly being eroded by judges with different agendas. What does it matter? CBS News last week was discussing the expectation of serious flooding of all coastal areas within 20 years. Where will that leave those anti-constutional judges then?

Reminds me of Bill Cosby...

Noah?!!!

Yes, Lord?

How long can you tread water?




It's all going to change and very soon. We have broken the records for temps here the last week. It's in the 80's when the average is normally in the 50's. No winter. No spring. It's summer.

The one's eroding the constitution won't listen. Eventually they'll be crying in their beer, only the beer will be warm...


Well.....don't think old Jimmy Madison can be blamed for Global Warming... but that reminds me of one of those great old Blue Jazz Grass .....Songs about such stuff dating way back (the old way back machine) to 1973....featuring some of my fav's including David Holland who recently played a conference for the birds on Agnes Radio....as well as Norman (what a quick frickin wrist) Blake and Vassar (Clamp) Clements as well as Jethro (where's Homer or old Stevie G??) Burns and even young Sammy (just trying to keep up) Bush''''....

That's right...The Old Sauer Kraut and Solar Energy:

Before Biomass Conversion turned into turning Corn into Alcohol (whose f'in dumb idea was that)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dE7QzCfjVEg

Cellulose to Acetate .... Now You Got some Biomass conversion!!!!!!!!


But old Jimmy Madison is one of my fav's, He was the youngster buck among Founding Father's
I guess he was the founding little brother!

He is responsible for both the Constitution and the Bill of Rights even though he fought old Al Hamilton on having the Federal Reserve (That's right Jafo...if you are out there and thank god your gone....the Federal Reserve was really Al Hamilton's Idea!!!!!)

And while I am here


Beware...The real sign of Global Warming is a new ICE AGE!!!!!!! Winter won't get warmer.....It will never go away!!!!!!

(OMG I forgot Tut Taylor and Butch Robbins...soooooosorrry)


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2012 5:25 pm
  

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Quote:
And while I am here


Beware...The real sign of Global Warming is a new ICE AGE!!!!!!! Winter won't get warmer.....It will never go away!!!!!!



You could be right, only in isolated areas, like the "Little Ice Age" of the 1600's.

I suppose my point is that none of the politics will matter much longer. There will be some of us who prepared and survived to build a brave new world and those who didn't.

There are so many lawyers, judges and other politicians I could care less what happens to them, but there are quite a few, especially we artists, that would be nice to have along when we are all finally free to build a society based in peace and love. Money makes sense at the moment, but after all is shaken to bits, I doubt if it will and hope it never becomes a common love of an evil thing it turned out to be.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2012 7:39 pm
  

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DrCharbonneau wrote:
Quote:
And while I am here


Beware...The real sign of Global Warming is a new ICE AGE!!!!!!! Winter won't get warmer.....It will never go away!!!!!!



You could be right, only in isolated areas, like the "Little Ice Age" of the 1600's.

I suppose my point is that none of the politics will matter much longer. There will be some of us who prepared and survived to build a brave new world and those who didn't.

There are so many lawyers, judges and other politicians I could care less what happens to them, but there are quite a few, especially we artists, that would be nice to have along when we are all finally free to build a society based in peace and love. Money makes sense at the moment, but after all is shaken to bits, I doubt if it will and hope it never becomes a common love of an evil thing it turned out to be.


Well actually, the models are that the Gulf Stream would stop and without the hot water from the equator pushing North or South to the arctics, well the jet streams would stop and then the equator would get really hot and the arctics would get really cold and it would take a long time to achieve a new equilibrium....we are actually contemplating another great Ice age with glaciers and everything....just no wooly mammoths or saber tooth tigers....I love those guys...wooly mammoths that is!


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2012 9:25 pm
  

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I'm a really big scary dude with a monster beard...

I plan on being around. Is that close enough?... no tusks though :D


Nothing mushy either...


There are more than one model. I didn't mean to hijack the thread. It just seems so passe now to worry about an eroding constitution, that does tend to make a redblooded American fellow's blood boil, when some of those models point to a major sequence of heat and rain and flooding and volcanism and quakes.

On another forum site someone mentioned that it would all seem like such a waste for it all to suddenly go "bluey" when we have made such strides in technology and the arts and 50 years ago we saw the birth of some beautiful new philosophies. Arlo gave us some words that can apply to all of the above: "If every day one person walks in ... and sings a bar of Alice's Restaurant... and walks out... it may be a movement." I can't speak for him, but I imagine that has a deeper meaning about people joining in and refusing to go along with the main stream.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 22, 2012 5:19 am
  

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DrCharbonneau wrote:
It just seems so passe now to worry about an eroding constitution, that does tend to make a redblooded American fellow's blood boil, when some of those models point to a major sequence of heat and rain and flooding and volcanism and quakes.


Well I suppose we can all just give up and live out our time here on this dying planet!

or

We can muster all our powers of thought and persuasion and attempt to get everybody to sing a few bars of "we are one people on one planet" and walk out!

I personally do not have much of a problem with the constitution. My issues are primarily with how some people interpret it. It has become pretty apparent that those I disagree with are claiming the constitution and the founding fathers all supported their ideas and views. I won't call it rewriting history so much as rewriting perspective. Thomas Jefferson for example. I have heard right wing preachers on their pulpit claiming Tom as a true Christian Conservative that extolled the virtues of god, country and capital! While I have read in Tom's on writings that he found Jesus to be a teacher and he bought none of that Christ crap, he did have a love of country but preferred a more provincial outlook that would have seen America grow as the great agricultural bread basket linked together in more of a commune type association with capital and industry as necessary evils to allow development. All this while he himself was in debt to his eyeballs, running his property on slave labor and taping some brown sugar in the back room on occasion.

So, when i look at it that way I must decide: fold it in and sit on the beach with a nice cold fruity drink til the tide takes me home or fight back in the only way I know how? I do like the beach and fruity drinks? Hmmmm?


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 22, 2012 8:43 am
  

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heraclitis wrote:
So, when i look at it that way I must decide: fold it in and sit on the beach with a nice cold fruity drink til the tide takes me home or fight back in the only way I know how? I do like the beach and fruity drinks? Hmmmm?



I do tend to agree with you on most things H. And most of the time, I don't believe a sit on the beach with fruity drinks and making the world a better place short and long-term are mutually exclusive. It's pretty clear to me that if we don't change our evil ways (humanity in general) pretty soon, there will be a lot less beaches. It may be the case that it's too late to prevent many of the negative changes that climate change will bring about.......we can envision some of them but certainly there will be many we have not or could not imagine. I will say this: it doesn't take a rocket-scientist to foresee a situation in the not-too-distant-future when enough clean water to go around will be a major problem. Humans are butchering each other as we speak over things which, at least from my perspective, are WAY less significant than clean water. As hard as it is most of the time, I do my best to be optimistic - a dealer of hope, if you will. That may be crazy as hell but sometimes it's the only way I can keep alive what's left of my sanity and serenity. When young people finally realize that their opportunities for a healthy and happy planet to inhabit (and for their children, etc.) have been sold down the river - billions of futures greedily traded for 15 more minutes of NOW - they might just get pissed-off and enlightened enough to actually demand the changes in thought and behavior required to turn things around. I hope.


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