All I want for Christmas is my hope back...

By blocking the payroll tax cut, the Republicans have given the president a chance to redeem his promise

(see full post at) http://www.salon.com/2011/12/21/opportu ... singleton/

By Thomas Schaller

This is it for President Obama.

This is the moment he and his presidency promised to deliver. The fight over the payroll tax cut extension gives Obama a chance — perhaps one, final chance — to elevate the more pinched, listing and frequently uninspired policy agenda he prosecuted from the White House these past three years toward his lofty rhetoric of 2008

Obama’s presidency was supposed to restore some balance to the perverse economic and political power imbalance between the wealthy and the working. His was supposed to be the presidency that would change the way Washington’s political rules and rulers operated. His was supposed to be the presidency that corrected the nation’s economic course. His was supposed to be the presidency that brought together “Democrats, independents and even some Republicans.” His was supposed to be the presidency of hope, the presidency of change.

Well, here’s his big chance to deliver. He shouldn’t let congressional Republicans go home for Christmas without a victory on the payroll tax cut extension. He can’t let their stalling tactics break him. He should call out the radical House Republicans by name, welcome their hatred, and direct Americans’ ire right back at them. Occupy the Capitol, if he must. Because this is not just the fight of his presidency — it could very well be the fight for his presidency.

I stand to benefit from the payroll tax cut, and benefit well.. But I ask all of you: Are we going to pay for Social Security and Medicare or not?

We'd better. SS & Medicare are the only reasons there aren't 10's of millions of homeless and starving senior citizens out here, there and everywhere. The radical republican idea of privatizing these programs for corporate profit is about the stupidest and most dangerous idea to come down the pike during our lifetimes.

Well, payroll taxes specifically pay for SS & Medicare.. So I am assuming then, that anyone supporting President Obama's extension of the payroll tax cut, also supports cutting funds from SS & Medicare.

The idea that we should give the government some of our money, interest free, and if we die they keep it, sounds to me the more radical position.

And if you believe that SS is keeping people from starving in the streets, then I feel sorry for you for having that opinion of your fellow man.

(Sorry, edited the above post to finish my point)

No need to feel sorry for me. As for my opinion(s) of my fellow humans, I'm a social worker, Jafo. I have clients who absolutely would be living on the streets if not for their SS and SSI.

Where is the evidence of this? My grandparents live on SS and Medicare, but I can guarantee you that should that disappear tomorrow, they would be well taken care of by me and the rest of the family. In fact, for the last few thousand years, that is how it worked. (before SS and social workers that is)

I see what you mean. Those who have family that would care for them are very fortunate, and in an ideal society that's the way it should work. Family, friends, neighbors - even compassionate strangers - sharing what they have with those in need. But I assure you, not everyone in our society is so fortunate. And it seems these days, (and this is the worst part), many folks who have way more than they need don't want to share.

I work in the disability community and literally know people that would be homeless or dead if it weren't for the assistance.

Bernie Sanders Plan to scrap the $106.8k cap and tax all income over $250k sound great, for it would fund a very needed program forever, which is not an oppressive tax at all.

I believe you would help your fellow man; I can tell by the limited conversations we have had that you would. You don't become a social worker for the pay, you do so because you care. There are many more people out there like you, more than I think you know. I know (and I think many of us do) several wealthy people who quietly take care of people/causes.

As time goes by, I believe we have been giving the government the task of being charitable in our names. We hand over a portion of our earnings (or go to jail if we don't) and expect them to take care of the sick, elderly and needy. Instead of using that same money and resources to directly help people and setting an example for our children and peers, we give that responsibility to the government with the notion that otherwise we would not take care of our fellow man.

I ask you, would you walk by a person starving in the street if there was no government to bail them out? I think out of all the people I know well, maybe 5% of them would walk by, the rest would do what they could to help that person.

Had the middle class not been getting as squeezed as it has been, many would gladly donate to Local Food Pantries and Shelters.

"...So I am assuming then, that anyone supporting President Obama's extension of the payroll tax cut, also supports cutting funds from SS & Medicare."

Do the ends justify the means?

Would I rather increase taxes on those making > $250k/yr?

Yes. Good luck with that in todays political climate.

So I think its ~ $1k to $4k in working peoples hands. Some of them need the money.

The reps stepped in it a bit on this issue though.

I'm talking about where the rubber meets the road. Not some other time or in some dream. There are people close to you (in proximity) that are hungry and cold right now. There aren't enough people helping as it is, and the number of homeless and hungry would multiply exponentially if it weren't for the assistance that we are barely funding now.

I don't understand this argument.. Why do you want to increase taxes on someone making 250k a year?

As for the $1k - $4k in peoples hands, it is being taken from the SS fund and Medicare, are those means justifiable?

My question is, are we gong to pay for it or not?